Red Card Lottery at the weekend
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@bones you do understand what im saying though, we also hear people say, if theyre not watching the ball that they cant have had a realistic chance of regathering. and the line between the two is razor thin and were handing out the ultimate punishment for it
In this case i think he times almost everything perfectly, its in less than a second both players drop resulting in an accidental (in my eyes) contact to the head, which would mitigate things
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@kiwiwomble said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@bones you do understand what im saying though, we also hear people say, if theyre not watching the ball that they cant have had a realistic chance of regathering. and the line between the two is razor thin and were handing out the ultimate punishment for it
In this case i think he times almost everything perfectly, its in less than a second both players drop resulting in an accidental (in my eyes) contact to the head, which would mitigate things
Am I the only one here with peripheral vision? It's a pretty disingenuous phrase if you ask me - you're never "just watching the ball". That's what makes it even worse for me.
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@bones peripheral vision s much better side to side than up and down
nearly a third smaller, so when tracking a ball almost directly above you your vision whats directly in front of you is going to be less than ideal, combined with the tiny timeframes were talking about...it just seems harsh to say there were no mitigating factors, but im happy to accept that's just me
I dont want punishments to be as big a part of the game as they currently are, even penalties. I was always taught that penalties/YC/RC were degrees of punishment for deliberate cheating or foul play...not negative results of direct competition for the ball....but as above, i may well have to accept i am in the minority
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@bones I’m not even sure what that one means sorry
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@kiwiwomble they turned their head sideways, result! You can see the tongue firmly in the cheek even.
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@kiwiwomble said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@bones my point is it can be a circular argument
if the player isn't watching the ball and jumps, competes, but doesn't get it...its quite likely he'll get done for not having a realistic chance of regathering...how could he...but if he never takes his eye of the ball...its hard to know where other players are...do he could go up...but the only thing stopping him getting it is another player...he didn't know about because he was watching the ball
In this case, hes tried to watch both and decided to tackle rather than go for the ball, even drops into the tackle, what he hasn't seen is the wales player drop slightly upon catching and so they go head to head to shoulder to shoulder
yes, starting point is RED but for me there are mitigating circumstances
You can see the ground covered and both go from standing to crouched and a second doesn't pass
I know, its just me, i hate seeing these red cards where in my mind there is no malice past past trying to make the perfectly timed tackle, i see it very different to the DMac tackle for example where hes lined him up from a mile away, and even then on first watching i tought it was just a huge hit, only on the reply did i click the hit to the head
Well there's a shock, Kieran Hardy is 1.85m tall (I was expecting him to be much shorter)
So even with a 30cm loss in height for knee bend and shoulder slouch and 20cm for ground to over the boot height, that still leaves a 1.35m target zone.
Great tackling technique, poor execution.
First contact to ball carrier's head.
Clear red.
Aim lower, be more accurate.
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There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
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@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
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@bones said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
Our friends in the NH, namely the poms and I think the Scots voted down the 20 minute red card. It ain’t happening.
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@bones said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
Totally agree.
I think 99% of people on here care greatly for player safety, and 80%+ want some movement away from reds meaning 14-man rugby after a non-malicious incident.
But I can't understand why people are choosing this incident as the hill to die on to make theit point. This isn't him in the defensive line, squaring up to make a hit and having a player adjust his height at the last minute to make incidental contact. This is a bloke running 25m at pace to try and make a huge hit, and he doesn't get nearly low enough. He chose his height, and it was blatantly wrong.
It's also a fucking shoulder charge which nobody seems to care about. His arm is pointing down, not wrapping around.
Shit tackle, right result.
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I believe the shot was high and dangerous and he had plenty of time to aim lower. The issue is the impact a red usually has on the game and spectacle. Credit to Australia here but imagine WC Semi, full strength French side and it would likely be a different result.
I personally would prefer a red to be 10 minutes and not replaced. Reds used to be very rare and for when you bit off another players ear. Now we seem to have reds every weekend.
It is a team sport and one players brain fart or poor technique can fuck it for everyone. I just hope common sense prevails at some point.
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@voodoo said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@bones said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
@mariner4life said in Red Card Lottery at the weekend:
There it is. Layed out. Korobeti's is not even close to a red. Not even on the same ball park.
Rugby has lost its fucking mind
He was too high and as a result ended up shoulder to head. I would've probably sided with yellow, but look, if we want players to be more careful and they're not learning, red card makes sense.
Think they need to bring in the 20 minute red card and player is replaced though.
Totally agree.
I think 99% of people on here care greatly for player safety, and 80%+ want some movement away from reds meaning 14-man rugby after a non-malicious incident.
But I can't understand why people are choosing this incident as the hill to die on to make theit point. This isn't him in the defensive line, squaring up to make a hit and having a player adjust his height at the last minute to make incidental contact. This is a bloke running 25m at pace to try and make a huge hit, and he doesn't get nearly low enough. He chose his height, and it was blatantly wrong.
It's also a fucking shoulder charge which nobody seems to care about. His arm is pointing down, not wrapping around.
Shit tackle, right result.
If you pause at the right spot (shows 4 seconds but probably just a frame) you can see that he also drove up. Pretty hard to convince anyone that he wasn't taking a high risk approach that came off wrong when you come in that hard and drive up enough to lift the ball carrier off their feet.
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I'm a not sure how I feel about the Koirebete hit. It seems identical to the red in in the Wales/Arg game. In both cases I would lean towards yellow using a drop in body height as mitigation/excuse. On the other hand, in both cases the tackler chose to make huge hit which they were unable to control, so I don't have much sympathy for either tackler. The 20min red would have been the right result in both cases, but unfortunately that was voted down.
A bigger problem is the inconsistency of what is being picked up by the referee and TMO. After the SA A v Lions game Gatland in a presser tried to argue that Faf should have seen red for his hit on Wyn Jones. Erasmus fired back on Twitter raising a couple of hits that were not reviewed (
. .
If we really want change behavior it is far more important that every high hit is punished rather than picking instances at random for severe punishment. I am reminded of story in Victorian England when pick pockets would be executed in public hangings. But people would continue to pick pocket at these events because the risk of being caught was so low.
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@voodoo yeah I find this one quite similar to the Ofa red card. Far from malicious and not exactly aimed at the head - but just aimed too high and dangerous as a result. Like I said for the Ofa one - if MK had aimed at the midriff instead of the shoulder, the highlight would be on smashed em bro.
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After all the fuss, and the NH voting down the 20 min RC, maybe we need a third card for the high tackles, with a 20 min sanction.
Red cards can stay as full game penalties but go back for being for filth, not minute mistakes made in split second decisions.
