What’s out there at Second Five?
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@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
George Moala in several European Cup team of week selections at 12.
Team of the Week: Champions Cup, Round One
Now that the dust has settled on the opening round of the Champions Cup, we have gone through the action to pick the best players from the games.
Maori Jesus reserve 12!
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I've been thinking, at the Blues (and the ABs) 12 is a consistently under-valued position and whoever is there needs a string of games to get comfortable. I won't count TJ as they seldom seem to play him, in general, I'd have to go back a decade or so to find a good 12 at the Blues (yeh, I probably missed someone). 12 and 13 aren't that easily interchangeable as Goodhue's change revealed. Of course it is made worse at the Blues as who knows who their top 10 is, even now, and the star BB purchase, was, to put it mildly, of academic value if he doesn't play.
At AB level, arguably, the leading 12 is a guy who doesn't want to play there and normally doesn't. (Perhaps ALB is in contention, but some have said he looks better at 13).. -
@nostrildamus said in Blues 2021:
I've been thinking, at the Blues (and the ABs) 12 is a consistently under-valued position and whoever is there needs a string of games to get comfortable. I won't count TJ as they seldom seem to play him, in general, I'd have to go back a decade or so to find a good 12 at the Blues (yeh, I probably missed someone). 12 and 13 aren't that easily interchangeable as Goodhue's change revealed. Of course it is made worse at the Blues as who knows who their top 10 is, even now, and the star BB purchase, was, to put it mildly, of academic value if he doesn't play.
At AB level, arguably, the leading 12 is a guy who doesn't want to play there and normally doesn't. (Perhaps ALB is in contention, but some have said he looks better at 13)..Not that different to Chiefs and Highlanders really. Since the Chiefs lost the world's greatest midfielder to the Euro they have chopped and changed ALB around to fit whoever else was playing that week. Highlanders have also found 12 a troublesome position to nail down and even the Saders have had to move Goodhue in one until injuries forced the hand of Haviili to play there and prove to be a success..
We simply don't have enough quality 12s which, in part, is due to it being a position that is at the whim of the coaching. Do they want a straight runner ala Laumape or a 2nd 5/8? Nonu was a freak in that he developed into a combo of both. Doesn't encourage many to specialise there. Most hedge their bets with being a 'centre'
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@nostrildamus said in Blues 2021:
At AB level, arguably, the leading 12 is a guy who doesn't want to play there and normally doesn't.
Charlie Ngatai?
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@nzzp said in Blues 2021:
@nostrildamus said in Blues 2021:
At AB level, arguably, the leading 12 is a guy who doesn't want to play there and normally doesn't.
Charlie Ngatai?
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@crucial said in Blues 2021:
@nostrildamus said in Blues 2021:
I've been thinking, at the Blues (and the ABs) 12 is a consistently under-valued position and whoever is there needs a string of games to get comfortable. I won't count TJ as they seldom seem to play him, in general, I'd have to go back a decade or so to find a good 12 at the Blues (yeh, I probably missed someone). 12 and 13 aren't that easily interchangeable as Goodhue's change revealed. Of course it is made worse at the Blues as who knows who their top 10 is, even now, and the star BB purchase, was, to put it mildly, of academic value if he doesn't play.
At AB level, arguably, the leading 12 is a guy who doesn't want to play there and normally doesn't. (Perhaps ALB is in contention, but some have said he looks better at 13)..Not that different to Chiefs and Highlanders really. Since the Chiefs lost the world's greatest midfielder to the Euro they have chopped and changed ALB around to fit whoever else was playing that week. Highlanders have also found 12 a troublesome position to nail down and even the Saders have had to move Goodhue in one until injuries forced the hand of Haviili to play there and prove to be a success..
We simply don't have enough quality 12s which, in part, is due to it being a position that is at the whim of the coaching. Do they want a straight runner ala Laumape or a 2nd 5/8? Nonu was a freak in that he developed into a combo of both. Doesn't encourage many to specialise there. Most hedge their bets with being a 'centre'
We don't really have many 2nd 5/8s do we?
(did Tom Tayloy retire btw? Left France I thought, about 32..) -
@nzzp said in Blues 2021:
@nostrildamus said in Blues 2021:
At AB level, arguably, the leading 12 is a guy who doesn't want to play there and normally doesn't.
Charlie Ngatai?
No. He is the aforementioned 'world's greatest midfielder'
Wish we still had him in the mix.
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@bones said in Blues 2021:
@crucial said in Blues 2021:
Highlanders have also found 12 a troublesome position
Not quite true really, Highlanders found an excellent 12 and after finally getting him and his midfield partner into prime form, disappeared them.
Currently coaching his old school 1st XV.
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@bovidae said in Blues 2021:
@bones said in Blues 2021:
@crucial said in Blues 2021:
Highlanders have also found 12 a troublesome position
Not quite true really, Highlanders found an excellent 12 and after finally getting him and his midfield partner into prime form, disappeared them.
Currently coaching his old school 1st XV.
Not surprised he's got into coaching after seeing the shit show that got one of the top jobs last year.
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ALB is the best 12 in the country. Hands down. Outside him for the All Blacks we have a ton of options in Goodhue, Ennor, PUJ and Ioane. In a 23 either Goodhue provides cover for 12 as the starting 13, or off the bench, or we have the impact of Laumape off the bench, or try Havili'i off the bench. It's not really that bad. Even Dallas McLeod has shown signs this season of settling into SR level and then potentially making the leap.
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@chris gun starters, but I almost threw up on your bench. Clarke, Faingaanuku, McKenzie, Laumape might be some better names to throw in there somewhere (at least at the end).
To be fair I forgot about Clarke which shows me he has been underwhelming this season.
But I wouldn’t mind Clarke,Faingaanuku or McKenzie in that last bench position.
Reece has been good though high work rate recently.
Laumape I just wouldn’t pick him ahead of the others. -
@chris said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Havilli at 2nd Five,ALB centre would be what I would like to see.
Smith,Mounga,Havilli,ALB,Jordan, Rieko,JB
Weber,BB,Reece on the Bench
- Would consider swapping RM & BB.
- Reece starts or nothing, so nothing. I'd have e Clarke and DMac and even Bridge in front of him on the bench
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@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
ALB is the best 12 in the country. Hands down. Outside him for the All Blacks we have a ton of options in Goodhue, Ennor, PUJ and Ioane. In a 23 either Goodhue provides cover for 12 as the starting 13, or off the bench, or we have the impact of Laumape off the bench, or try Havili'i off the bench. It's not really that bad. Even Dallas McLeod has shown signs this season of settling into SR level and then potentially making the leap.
half right ALB is best midfielder we have the question which position to play him and who with
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I firmly believe Thomas Umaga-Jensen from Highlanders will be the eventual long-term All Blacks 12, pairing with ALB or Goodhue at 13.
Was really gutted when he got injured. Tony Brown reckoned he could've been an All Black as early as this year..
