All Blacks 2021
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
I not sure who best coach is, but maintain we sitting here watching tv and writing on rugby forums probably wouldn't really be the best to know either. I am not convinced either way after last year, but what result would we rather have, Foster's or rennie's who many thought was also the answer. The reason I tend to support whoever is in charge maybe because I have been in the position everywhere from schoolboy , to club, JAB provincial reps through to actually provincial coach where I was on board that appointed the coaches. Like everything else almost everytime there were people who knew better than me, and could tell me why such and such shouldn't be coach. You know funnily enough like us, they were never in a position to know what was required, what each person bought to the interview, etc etc. As I say I not sure I Fozzie should be doing job, but I do say one thing, I think our standards may of dropped (though hard to tell last year) but one of things I have a suspicion is our skill level has dropped a bit in NZ, and that is not going to be fixed at ABs, but a lot lower than that. How many times over last year have we watched games where we are gobsmacked by the passig etc skills of our super players, one of our dtrengthys used to be we could set up a blindside attack with 3-4 players in 5m channel by touchline and beat defenders by quick passing etc. It's not happening.
Maybe, but the lack of worry about losing to Argentina from the Coaches and even worse, the press, is more of an issue. The constant pressure on coaches and players to perform and maintain the All Black legacy is why we have the record we do.
As soon as we stop being result orientated and start looking at fluffy shit like culture then we on the road to being as shit as Wales.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
I not sure who best coach is, but maintain we sitting here watching tv and writing on rugby forums probably wouldn't really be the best to know either. I am not convinced either way after last year, but what result would we rather have, Foster's or rennie's who many thought was also the answer. The reason I tend to support whoever is in charge maybe because I have been in the position everywhere from schoolboy , to club, JAB provincial reps through to actually provincial coach where I was on board that appointed the coaches. Like everything else almost everytime there were people who knew better than me, and could tell me why such and such shouldn't be coach. You know funnily enough like us, they were never in a position to know what was required, what each person bought to the interview, etc etc. As I say I not sure I Fozzie should be doing job, but I do say one thing, I think our standards may of dropped (though hard to tell last year) but one of things I have a suspicion is our skill level has dropped a bit in NZ, and that is not going to be fixed at ABs, but a lot lower than that. How many times over last year have we watched games where we are gobsmacked by the passig etc skills of our super players, one of our dtrengthys used to be we could set up a blindside attack with 3-4 players in 5m channel by touchline and beat defenders by quick passing etc. It's not happening.
Maybe, but the lack of worry about losing to Argentina from the Coaches and even worse, the press, is more of an issue. The constant pressure on coaches and players to perform and maintain the All Black legacy is why we have the record we do.
As soon as we stop being result orientated and start looking at fluffy shit like culture then we on the road to being as shit as Wales.
You reckon they didn't worry about dropping the test against Argies? I would reckon the coaches would of been shitting themselves, as for the press, I not sure how coaches can get press to panic but maybe..... Make no mistake I thought it a worry when we lost to Argies, we weren't in right headspace. Look I not defending anyone, just saying that perhaps none of us is in a better position to know who is a good coach and it easy when our decisions aren't going to make a difference. I am 66 yo and don't think in last 30 years where the AB coach or Aus coach for that mattter have been really well supported. Not sure if you remember how many 'experts' knew that NZRU got it wrong reappointing Henry and co after 2007 WC, and how many reckoned that Wallabies were going to beat us with the 'superior' coach in Robbie Deans. Bet you don't hear many of them repeating it nowadays.
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
Not sure if you remember how many 'experts' knew that NZRU got it wrong reappointing Henry and co after 2007 WC, and how many reckoned that Wallabies were going to beat us with the 'superior' coach in Robbie Deans. Bet you don't hear many of them repeating it nowadays.
But in both cases:
- The first year gave a picture of what was to follow. Deans never did get any better. Henry continued to have a magnificent team (the loss that never happened was always the aberration).
- We still said wait until the second year's out before re-signing. As we are doing here.
It's one thing to be wrong before a coach is appointed. But after seeing a year of trash, being wrong after he has had a run is just plain idiotic.
At international level, and indeed Super Rugby, coaches who haven't got a winning team by the end of their second year never will (reliably) have one. Really good coaches turn things around pretty damned fast. Rennie won his first year with a team that Foster got eight years with. Robertson won early, while Blackadder never could despite the Crusader's faith that somehow it would get better with time.
If the ABs aren't looking a lot better by the end of 2021, then they never will under Foster.
Oh, and paragraphs help others to read what you write. That's why they invented them.
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@chester-draws said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
Not sure if you remember how many 'experts' knew that NZRU got it wrong reappointing Henry and co after 2007 WC, and how many reckoned that Wallabies were going to beat us with the 'superior' coach in Robbie Deans. Bet you don't hear many of them repeating it nowadays.
But in both cases:
- The first year gave a picture of what was to follow. Deans never did get any better. Henry continued to have a magnificent team (the loss that never happened was always the aberration).
- We still said wait until the second year's out before re-signing. As we are doing here.
It's one thing to be wrong before a coach is appointed. But after seeing a year of trash, being wrong after he has had a run is just plain idiotic.
At international level, and indeed Super Rugby, coaches who haven't got a winning team by the end of their second year never will (reliably) have one. Really good coaches turn things around pretty damned fast. Rennie won his first year with a team that Foster got eight years with. Robertson won early, while Blackadder never could despite the Crusader's faith that somehow it would get better with time.
If the ABs aren't looking a lot better by the end of 2021, then they never will under Foster.
Very clearly laid out. Couldn't agree more.
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results are one thing
at this stage i would like to see some emergence of what our competitive advantage is. How are we going to beat teams? Because 2020 it looked like hope. Hope that the same old game plan works with worse players.
II think i could stomach another year of ordinary results if the glimmer of the players and style that would win the 2023 RWC started to emerge. Rather than the same guys doing the same thing to an ordinary standard.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
results are one thing
at this stage i would like to see some emergence of what our competitive advantage is. How are we going to beat teams? Because 2020 it looked like hope. Hope that the same old game plan works with worse players.
II think i could stomach another year of ordinary results if the glimmer of the players and style that would win the 2023 RWC started to emerge. Rather than the same guys doing the same thing to an ordinary standard.
A 2004 type year?
I'm just hoping form gets rewarded - the sort of form that makes a difference in Tests, not highlights for SR.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
results are one thing
at this stage i would like to see some emergence of what our competitive advantage is. How are we going to beat teams? Because 2020 it looked like hope. Hope that the same old game plan works with worse players.
II think i could stomach another year of ordinary results if the glimmer of the players and style that would win the 2023 RWC started to emerge. Rather than the same guys doing the same thing to an ordinary standard.
A 2004 type year?
I'm just hoping form gets rewarded - the sort of form that makes a difference in Tests, not highlights for SR.
sort of? from memory 2004 was a real transition year, as the culture and everything needed an overhaul.
With regards to form, i am not sure what that is anymore. i don't think it's what looks awesome on the Super Rugby field, unless we find someway to unlock the field in a big test.
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@chester-draws said in All Blacks 2021:
At international level, and indeed Super Rugby, coaches who haven't got a winning team by the end of their second year never will (reliably) have one.
I think never is a pretty strong statement there. England weren't exactly breaking down doors in 98/99
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This post is deleted!
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@bones indeed, MacDonald's Blues weren't a winning team by the end of their second year either.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones indeed, MacDonald's Blues weren't a winning team by the end of their second year either.
Better hope you haven't cursed the rest of their season! There's a solid blues mafia here who will be baying for blood. Or probably at least change your profile pic.
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@kiwi_expat ? They were good in 2020.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones indeed, MacDonald's Blues weren't a winning team by the end of their second year either.
2020 (last year) was Madonald's second year.
Of their final 11 games in 2020 Blues won 9.....
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@bones indeed, MacDonald's Blues weren't a winning team by the end of their second year either.
2020 (last year) was Madonald's second year.
Of their final 11 games in 2020 Blues won 9.....
Don’t let facts get in the way.
Not much else the Highlander fans have to look forward to this year
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Good coaches can have bad seasons, Joseph in 2013? His third year in charge and got the record number of losses, won it two years after that
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
I not sure who best coach is, but maintain we sitting here watching tv and writing on rugby forums probably wouldn't really be the best to know either. I am not convinced either way after last year, but what result would we rather have, Foster's or rennie's who many thought was also the answer. The reason I tend to support whoever is in charge maybe because I have been in the position everywhere from schoolboy , to club, JAB provincial reps through to actually provincial coach where I was on board that appointed the coaches. Like everything else almost everytime there were people who knew better than me, and could tell me why such and such shouldn't be coach. You know funnily enough like us, they were never in a position to know what was required, what each person bought to the interview, etc etc. As I say I not sure I Fozzie should be doing job, but I do say one thing, I think our standards may of dropped (though hard to tell last year) but one of things I have a suspicion is our skill level has dropped a bit in NZ, and that is not going to be fixed at ABs, but a lot lower than that. How many times over last year have we watched games where we are gobsmacked by the passig etc skills of our super players, one of our dtrengthys used to be we could set up a blindside attack with 3-4 players in 5m channel by touchline and beat defenders by quick passing etc. It's not happening.
Maybe, but the lack of worry about losing to Argentina from the Coaches and even worse, the press, is more of an issue. The constant pressure on coaches and players to perform and maintain the All Black legacy is why we have the record we do.
As soon as we stop being result orientated and start looking at fluffy shit like culture then we on the road to being as shit as Wales.
Am I allowed to like both posts?
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@gt12
To me he acknowledged that because Cane is captain, he has to play 8. Seemed like more of a pragmatic choice than his preferred position.Personally I would rather him as a 7 or bench player than starting 8 for the ABs, not enough bulk for international rugby and there are better options.
