When should Foster go?
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@Bones said in When should Foster go?:
@Crucial said in When should Foster go?:
I do wonder if you have ever kicked a rugby ball.
Bro, what the fuck? What would anyone here having kicked a ball have to do with Mounga consistently fucking them up? You think he's kicking a different ball than anyone else getting paid plenty of money to do so? Because we can quite easily compare.
The kick Mounga missed was about 45 out and 10-15 in from touch wasn't it? I don't think you can get a better position to be kicking it from even if you're a social club player, let alone a highly paid professional.
Knew someone was going to bring up Carter too. That's like saying it's ok for SB to give away the odd penalty because Retallick does too. At least Carter would still have the capacity to steer the team around, make tackles and score plenty of points if he made a mistake and not shrink back from it.
I am a RM fan, and think he is the best 10 we have at the moment, but when he missed that kicked I groaned and muttered something to the missus that he cannot afford to miss those kicks given the battle he is in for his spot. It was 100% the wrong time to fluff something like that and he let himself down badly.
Interesting concept that it is ok for some players to make the same mistakes as others simply because they are better players. Not sure I agree with that, but I do get where you are coming from.
I think RM and Barrett are copping too much of the blame for the last two losses. Our problems are way deeper than that.
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@Crazy-Horse said in When should Foster go?:
Interesting concept that it is ok for some players to make the same mistakes as others simply because they are better players. Not sure I agree with that, but I do get where you are coming from.
It's not simply because they're better players though. It's because they'll do their job and do what's needed to get their team on top. RM had done SFA until then, that was a perfect moment to step up, do the basics and start to get his team looking like winners. And he can't even butter his bread, what he should be able to do with his eyes closed. It's not just a missed touch, I can't imagine that not having an effect on others in the team too.
Yeah problems are definitely bigger than that but when your guy who's supposed to be the master planner is so unreliable, you probably should start there.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
He may have inherited a whole load of problems but he knew they were there when he took on the job. Key question for me is if he's the man to sort out the problems.
Give him until the end of the season to show if he's up to it.
Cool, one more game and he's gone
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@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
He may have inherited a whole load of problems but he knew they were there when he took on the job. Key question for me is if he's the man to sort out the problems.
Give him until the end of the season to show if he's up to it.
Cool, one more game and he's gone
Even though we all know he needs to go, we should also probably know that he won't be sacked or stand down as Covid will be bandied about as an excuse in unsettled times and all that.
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@Hooroo said in When should Foster go?:
@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
He may have inherited a whole load of problems but he knew they were there when he took on the job. Key question for me is if he's the man to sort out the problems.
Give him until the end of the season to show if he's up to it.
Cool, one more game and he's gone
Even though we all know he needs to go, we should also probably know that he won't be sacked or stand down as Covid will be bandied about as an excuse in unsettled times and all that.
Well same, or worse, for the opposition, so it shouldn't be
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@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
Cool, one more game and he's gone
For some reason, I thought we were playing Italy & Wales in late-Winter (NZ).
Probably best you're right. Don't think I could hack the thought of losing to Italy & Wales (for the first time in 70 years..)
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@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
@Hooroo said in When should Foster go?:
@Machpants said in When should Foster go?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
He may have inherited a whole load of problems but he knew they were there when he took on the job. Key question for me is if he's the man to sort out the problems.
Give him until the end of the season to show if he's up to it.
Cool, one more game and he's gone
Even though we all know he needs to go, we should also probably know that he won't be sacked or stand down as Covid will be bandied about as an excuse in unsettled times and all that.
Well same, or worse, for the opposition, so it shouldn't be
I agree, but there are a lot of people who look foolish around his selection as coach and they won't be quick to admit it.
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@Bones said in When should Foster go?:
@Crazy-Horse said in When should Foster go?:
Interesting concept that it is ok for some players to make the same mistakes as others simply because they are better players. Not sure I agree with that, but I do get where you are coming from.
It's not simply because they're better players though. It's because they'll do their job and do what's needed to get their team on top. RM had done SFA until then, that was a perfect moment to step up, do the basics and start to get his team looking like winners. And he can't even butter his bread, what he should be able to do with his eyes closed. It's not just a missed touch, I can't imagine that not having an effect on others in the team too.
Yeah problems are definitely bigger than that but when your guy who's supposed to be the master planner is so unreliable, you probably should start there.
Not defending RM for the miss because it was inexcusable. I do wonder how Carter would actually go in this team and with trying to combat the rush defence. It wasn't really anything he had to deal with. And he had pretty good forward pack in front of him.
Neither RM nor BB are bad players. They are not being given the platform to perform. Are there any 10s out there looking like world beaters, especially ones operating behind a disappointing pack?
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@Crazy-Horse think the difference is DC was able to adapt and react a bit quicker than most mortals
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@Victor-Meldrew you’re too generous. He’s been there long enough to say something unless he was just a puppet.
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@Crazy-Horse Agreed. It starts in the forwards and we’re not winning that battle and we know that has been our problem for several years. We are also unsettled in our centers which doesn’t help. Would like a bigger 2nd five outside BB or RM because both of them are slight. Where is the next Nonu?
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Dylan Cleaver puts it well this morning. To justify appointing Foster, the entire NZR regime had to drink the Kool Aid - with disastrous effect.
What message does it send if you look outside this well-thumbed Book of Lore for your next leader? Does it mean it was all a bit of a crock? It's an awkward message at the very least. This mythology becomes problematic on another level, too, because the very people who cannot afford to believe it start to: the players. The simple truth is that the majority of these All Blacks are not as good as the ones who went immediately before them, but they have been fooled into thinking that winning the "jersey" is the endgame and that everything that follows from there is pre-ordained. As a learned friend wrote to me on Sunday morning: "These All Blacks go out expecting to win. That is not their fault; that is the fault of management and the leadership of the organisation. This is what happens when your world order has been taught, not earned." -
part of the problem was Rennie didnt apply, Joseph didnt apply, Schmidt didnt apply, Gatland couldnt apply, leaving a 2 horse race with 2 men with zero head coaching experience at International level, but one had been part of a successful (the numbers back this up, even if the on field stuff left alot to be desired) International coaching team...
Not saying I agreed with it, but when you look at it, NZR were down to a coin toss...right now, looks like they went heads when they shoulda gone tails!
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@taniwharugby Maybe they should have started the process earlier when Rennie was available. But I assume a lot of these guys saw the writing on the wall and the NZRU tendency to stick with status quo. It’s a bit of an old boys network. Maybe next time they can have an anonymous survey of players who could discuss the merits of potential coaches.
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@broughie possibly, although it isnt like it was a secret Hansen was leaving either and the job would be up post RWC.
I guess for Rennie, he knew he wouldnt be the only candidate from outside the cool kids club, so maybe he had looked at who he might be up against, plus the history of internal succession, and though safe option was to take the Aus job on offer instead of waiting for the AB job to come up, that he mightnt get (similarly Joseph, Schmidt was always an outside shot given he had said he wasnt applying)
Wasnt it also only 6 months earlier Robertson had said he wasnt sure he was ready for it (or was that 2018?)
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@broughie said in When should Foster go?:
@Victor-Meldrew you’re too generous. He’s been there long enough to say something unless he was just a puppet.
Not sure that changing the puppet is going to make the puppet show any more successful. The problems run deep and have done for some time and aren't going to be fixed in a few games. (That's not an endorsement of Foster BTW)
If we sack Foster and replace him after only 5 games, are we going to set a win/lose target for his replacement and sack them after 5 games as well if they don't meet it?
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@Victor-Meldrew no I don’t think so. First I think we all knew that Foster was not up for the job. Second I think we would give any new fella more grace because he has not been part of the system for the past 8 years plus.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in When should Foster go?:
If we sack Foster and replace him after only 5 games, are we going to set a win/lose target for his replacement and sack them after 5 games as well if they don't meet it?
I think he shoudl go, but the losses are a symptom, not a cause.
The concerns before he took over were around selections, game plan and cohesiveness of the unit. 5 games in, it's pretty clear to me that there haven't been steps forward (and in fact usually backwards). Argentina is just the culmination - there's an argument that even if we scrape a miracle win, the problems Foster brings to the table aren't solved and he should step down.
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@Bones said in When should Foster go?:
@Crucial said in When should Foster go?:
I do wonder if you have ever kicked a rugby ball.
Bro, what the fuck? What would anyone here having kicked a ball have to do with Mounga consistently fucking them up? You think he's kicking a different ball than anyone else getting paid plenty of money to do so? Because we can quite easily compare.
The kick Mounga missed was about 45 out and 10-15 in from touch wasn't it? I don't think you can get a better position to be kicking it from even if you're a social club player, let alone a highly paid professional.
Knew someone was going to bring up Carter too. That's like saying it's ok for SB to give away the odd penalty because Retallick does too. At least Carter would still have the capacity to steer the team around, make tackles and score plenty of points if he made a mistake and not shrink back from it.
Yeah. I'll put my hand up for making stupid comments in the heat of the moment.
I was frustrated that a point I thought I had made clearly kept being misunderstood with a focus on 'how easy' a pro footballer should find a kick like that.I'll see if I can make my point even clearer.
It is up to coaching staff to provide players with the plans to win and to advise on best options to take in certain game positions.
It is also up to coaches to work with the game runner (10) to have options available if Plan A isn't working. Chip kick and hope is only an option when under advantage.
I don't think this coaching team have done that, or at least haven't drilled it into the players, as evidenced by the other night.
That is a coaching failure to address a problem that the team have had for a long time. A problem where hard lessons have been learned already.
At an individual level our players are not making good decisions. The RM example was to explain that at a critical point in time he took an option with a higher element of risk than was appropriate for the situation. If he does that he HAS to execute well.
Did he have any other risk/reward options available via the coaches though? Was a 5m drive the only thing they had? Had the coaches provided an attacking option with a lower risk setup? eg a 10 metre lineout with a set piece move?Apologies again for diverting the conversation away from the point at hand.
@Rancid-Schnitzel - sorry, no condescension intended. -
More muppet than puppet.
Maybe I'm being too harsh, he seems like a good bloke but it doesn't look good from a performance point of view and most of us knew it. So how long do you leave it?
A draw, two losses, two wins is bloody awful for the ABs. One win was when the Wobblies did this:
