Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November
-
No first-five is going to play well unless he has some kind of forward pack in front of him.
-
@raznomore BB's game management was always fickle.
Coles did have a time he controlled himself and he is still a form hooker but needs to be left out to cool down. Senior players need to fight for their place.I agree with the captaincy issue you raise. Cantabs can say better than I can, but I don't think SW would be a too quiet captain. There is one other option and that is A Smith. He would not be quiet but would he be a good captain?
-
Well, late to the thread. By crikey that was an annoying loss. The thing that really stands out for me, and leaves me furious, is that we didn't make Argentina create much to soundly beat us.
What we're seeing is what we feared with Foster - poor selections, and very little quality coaching. He's hell bent on getting what he sees as the best XV players out there, no matter whether they are specialists or not. Savea/Can, and ALB/Goodhue are the obvious ones, but we're also playing a heffalump at 14 and not giving him the kicks or allwoing him to contest in the air. It's insane - we trade off the speed and agility of a winger to get a big, strong, tall kicker, adn don't use his strengths.
Going back to the Argies, well done lads. You tackled your guts out, created a try with a moment of chaos, and took all the possession and territory we gifted you on a platter. Fair play, straigh up dominated us around the paddock.
Offensively we struggled, again, and just can't seem to actually understand how to break down a defence to create space outside. Goddamn I'm frustrated about this.
Finally, the thing that pushes the coaching concern for me is how players go the longer they spend in camp. Right now, you are seeing good players look headless or lost (TJP as an example), and just not improving the way they used to.
All in all, and I don't say this lightly, Foster should fall on his sword. If you can't get the team up afte rlosing last week, when and how the hella re you going to do that. Roll on 2021, because 2020 is a year to forget.
-
@mariner4life said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Y'all motherfuckers ready to listen to me yet?
I've been a devout follower of your gospel for a while now. As a seasoned and traumatised Chiefs fan you have the experience to see the patterns unfolding and predict what will come should we continue down this road.
-
As I said before, there has been no change in game plan from the old version. The rugby world has countered the 2015 game plan, packed up, moved on, and left the ABs behind to reflect on their golden age.
The Agies knew there wouldn't be hard yards made up the middle so they just committed one or two to the breakdown, spread out and waited for the inevitable pod system crash ball. So predictable and easy pickings. I will have to watch again but it seemed that the game was a bit weird, it lacked a traditional forward contest. There were few actual real contests of eight on eight fighting for every inch and dominance. Putting the ball in front of the forwards and carve off some territory by kicking to the corners etc, etc. Nothing resembling any type of game plan except an actual stricter version of the failed old one. -
-
@Rapido said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Wow. Congratulations Argentina. Never would have picked this, with the covid impacted build up for them.
I think it was good for them. It was like aRWC build up, sad I mentioned pre match. A lot of time together, a couple of minutes games to warm up, then an ambush Vs ABs
-
@Machpants said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I think it was good for them.
Yeah, I thought that too.
Watching us smash ourselves around in SRA, then against the Aussies for weeks and weeks.
They had rested bodies (and minds) and been doing the training, were clearly fit. We looked flat and tired.No excuses there though. They were better than us and if you can't lift for a test you shouldn't be on the field (I might still be a little grumpy).
-
@Machpants said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Rapido said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Wow. Congratulations Argentina. Never would have picked this, with the covid impacted build up for them.
I think it was good for them. It was like aRWC build up, sad I mentioned pre match. A lot of time together, a couple of minutes games to warm up, then an ambush Vs ABs
Assuming all 12 of them made good recoveries. The NBA experience was the total opposite, the guys that caught it never quite recovered,Westbrook a great example. Wonder there is something in the way Covid hits your aerobic/aerobic efforts.
-
@pakman said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@raznomore said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
The scrum got eaten yesterday. This is something we have been extremely strong in for a number of years now. So why have we suddenly gone backwards? I’m a fucken winger so can a prop explain it to me please. Redbeard was always good for that.
I think its down to your second row inconsistency. When you've got BBBR or Thorn pushing it is a markedly different prospect to Whitelock (who is no slouch) and almost anyone else available ATM. Throw in Whitelock having a couple of up and down performances, and swapping combinations through selection.
Our lineout is consistently the best or in and around the best, year in year out. But not last night.
It wasn't great last week either. Camped on the Wallaby line at the end of the first half and then got picked off. Again: consistency.
Don’t know what you think, but seems to me that some locks are better on TH — BBBR, Romano, Thorn, Kruis, etc. and others LH — Whitelock, Barrett and Itoje. So ABs have Whitelock at TH, which isn’t his best side and Patty T, which despite being very powerful never seems to transfer it to scrum time. Add in a couple of novice props and one hooker who isn’t known for his scrummaging and you’ve got a fairly so so set up.
Exactly - just like props are becoming specialists, locks have their role to play as well. If you've not played a lot of TH lock you don't have the same muscle memory and instinct for it. To be able to adjust angles and directions in the moment becomes problematic. In a split second you can find yourself in all sorts of trouble, and then people start thinking which leads to trouble
I go back (again) to the example of my club. Playing TH Prop in front of one guy who knew what he was doing was very different to playing in front of another guy who was bigger, stronger, and a better ball runner, but wasn't used to the position.
-
@voodoo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Machpants said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Rapido said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Wow. Congratulations Argentina. Never would have picked this, with the covid impacted build up for them.
I think it was good for them. It was like aRWC build up, sad I mentioned pre match. A lot of time together, a couple of minutes games to warm up, then an ambush Vs ABs
Assuming all 12 of them made good recoveries. The NBA experience was the total opposite, the guys that caught it never quite recovered,Westbrook a great example. Wonder there is something in the way Covid hits your aerobic/aerobic efforts.
Actually, fuck this. Calling Covid an advantage to them is a massive cop out (not saying anyone has actually said its the reason they won).
It was a huge disruption to them, their training and their prep. Conversely we had a fine prep, had well rested guys this week, and 2 massive mental reasons to get up having lost last week and having never lost to the steak-eaters.
-
all this talk of Hart and Mains, I reckon Fozzie got his hands on Mains gameplan from the 1995 RWC...pass it to #11
sadly 14 runs for 65m showed we didnt create the space for him to run with as well.
-
-
@Tim said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
This reminds me of 1999 through 2003. When the "powder puff forwards" stereotype was accurate.
Back then we were not at our best in Super Rugby too though, partly for that reason.
Now we carve up consistently in SR. NZ forwards seem strong enough in general.
I reckon a change of coaching staff and suddenly our "powder puff forwards" will be strangely able to do the business.
-
@Chester-Draws Super Rugby depth, especially in SA and Oz, has been pretty weak in recent year though.
-
Seriously we have 23 players capable of winning consistently,
FFS give them a go too decent game plan and a back up plan if things go pear shaped with the main plan.
Instill some passion and a direction they believe in and we dominate.
Summed up find some coaches who can get those things done. -
@Chris said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Seriously we have 23 players capable of winning consistently,
FFS give them a go too decent game plan and a back up plan if things go pear shaped with the main plan.
Instill some passion and a direction they believe in and we dominate.
Summed up find some coaches who can get those things done.you're clearly not qualified to select coaches, you make too much sense.
nothing about coaching teams or powerpoints?
-
@nzzp said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Chris said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Seriously we have 23 players capable of winning consistently,
FFS give them a go too decent game plan and a back up plan if things go pear shaped with the main plan.
Instill some passion and a direction they believe in and we dominate.
Summed up find some coaches who can get those things done.you're clearly not qualified to select coaches, you make too much sense.
nothing about coaching teams or powerpoints?
Hahaha seems simple to me
Fuck the power points. -
@Tim said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Chester-Draws Super Rugby depth, especially in SA and Oz, has been pretty weak in recent year though.
Didn't seem to affect the Boks last year.
Sometimes the Boks are good, sometimes bad, but they are never soft. And neither are their SR teams. (I'll grant you, Australia is different.)
