The debate about 12
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@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I'll admit I was one of those who was in the cut Ma'a loose camp, I felt he had way too many chances and still wasnt upto it...
Hence why I am not an AB selector!
Having seen him pissed and getting arrested up Courtney Place many years back ( with a Hurricanes game only a day or two away if memory serves ) I would have completely agreed with you at the time.
His improvement and subsequent standing in the echelon of AB 12's is staggering.
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@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
Hence why I am not an AB selector!
It's not all selecting is it. They must have been actually able to teach Ma'a things. You could call it coaching perhaps. The passing and kicking game came on in leaps and bounds over a bit of time.
I was the same though, he kept getting selected with low yield results (initially).
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@Snowy as a selector you pick the guy first, but this is done with collaboration with the coaches.
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
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@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
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@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
Exhibit 1 for you can't always pick ABs on Super form.
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@DMX said in The debate about 12:
@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
Exhibit 1 for you can't always pick ABs on Super form.
Go back a decade with Bunce and his performances for the Chiefs.
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@Bovidae said in The debate about 12:
@DMX said in The debate about 12:
@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
Exhibit 1 for you can't always pick ABs on Super form.
Go back a decade with Bunce and his performances for the Chiefs.
Totally correct , exhibit 2 then.
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@Bovidae said in The debate about 12:
@DMX said in The debate about 12:
@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
Exhibit 1 for you can't always pick ABs on Super form.
Go back a decade with Bunce and his performances for the Chiefs.
do you guys remember that documentary in the 90s on Harbour rugby, and it seemed like they had one dude employed just to find Frank?
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@mariner4life Do you remember the doco title?
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@Tim said in The debate about 12:
@mariner4life Do you remember the doco title?
no. i barely remember the documentary.
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@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@MN5 said in The debate about 12:
His improvement and subsequent standing in the echelon of AB 12's is staggering.
Arguably good coaching I think. His performance and behaviour at Super level was not flash at all.
I think that's doing Nonu a fair bit of a disservice. You don't get the kind of improvement he had without hard work and dedication and he was very good for the canes. Plus he had a great mentor who flicked the switch in a very similar way one off-season.
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@mariner4life this will suffice
42K views · 392 reactions | Bell South TVC advert - Waltz A Little |...
Who remembers this cheesey TVC from the 1990's ? :)
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@Bones said in The debate about 12:
@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@MN5 said in The debate about 12:
His improvement and subsequent standing in the echelon of AB 12's is staggering.
Arguably good coaching I think. His performance and behaviour at Super level was not flash at all.
I think that's doing Nonu a fair bit of a disservice. You don't get the kind of improvement he had without hard work and dedication and he was very good for the canes. Plus he had a great mentor who flicked the switch in a very similar way one off-season.
Yeah the poor at Super level is a bit of myth that keeps popping up, he had maybe one or two years not up to his usual standard, but even the year he got punted from the Canes he was in outstanding form.
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I know we often refer to Nonu as an example of certain things, but he’s a pretty unique example which is a testament to him and those around him for sticking at it for so long.
I think back to that 03 debut test and there was obvious physical attributes and ability, but I don’t think even the staunchest fan could’ve envisaged what we saw years later particularly in that 2010-2015 period.
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@ACT-Crusader snakey also had a lot to do with it. A funny duo as they both admit, but holy shit they were amazing together. Nonus flat, wide skip pass was something to behold.
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@Paekakboyz said in The debate about 12:
@ACT-Crusader snakey also had a lot to do with it. A funny duo as they both admit, but holy shit they were amazing together. Nonus flat, wide skip pass was something to behold.
The combination over so many years no doubt made things easier for the both of them. Knowing what the guy next to you is going to do and react in certain circumstances can’t be understated.
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@ACT-Crusader said in The debate about 12:
@Paekakboyz said in The debate about 12:
@ACT-Crusader snakey also had a lot to do with it. A funny duo as they both admit, but holy shit they were amazing together. Nonus flat, wide skip pass was something to behold.
The combination over so many years no doubt made things easier for the both of them. Knowing what the guy next to you is going to do and react in certain circumstances can’t be understated.
Amusing to recall that Frank often seemed to have more idea of what Little would do next than Walter himself.
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@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@pakman said in The debate about 12:
@ACT-Crusader said in The debate about 12:
@DMX said in The debate about 12:
When Nonu was first moved to 12 for ABs in 2006 there was a lot of head scratching when Henry and co said they thought it was his best position. If I remember right he was chosen ahead of Mauger (maybe McAllister too?). I don't remember if he had already started playing there with the Canes?
He only played one test at 2nd 5 in 06. The others were at centre and off the bench stints at centre and on the wing. In 2006 there was a lot of rotation.
Then in 07 he only had a couple of brief stints off the bench at centre given Mauger and Lucky were the preferred 2nd 5s and Snakey, Mils and Ice the preferred centres.
Fast forward to after the RWC and Nonu and Snakey assume first choice midfield for the mid-season tests and then into the 3Ns. And as they say the rest is history.
In 2006 EOYT Snakey was part of demolition in first French test outside Lucky. Three different combinations. Nonu 13 vs England outside Mauger and 12 in 2nd French test inside Mils.
If only?
Don't forget the 19th test match between NZ and Ireland, 10 June 2006 at Hamilton. Nonu was at centre and from my memory had a massive, massive defensive miss on BOD that resulted in a try. People were saying he shouldn't ever play for the ABs again it was that bad.
we won 34-26, but it was tighter than we'd like (and some bad blood after Lions '05)
Edit:
Carter-Nonu-BOD would be my dream inside backs.
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History of rugby union matches between Ireland and New Zealand - Wikipedia
