The debate about 12
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@MN5 said in The debate about 12:
Is there genuinely any former All Black who can match him for ability and longevity ?
Richard Hugh McCaw. The answer to any GOAT question.
But for 12s, he's it for me. Remarkably good player for a decade, and a huge loss when he stepped down. I still don't know how he managed to learn to pass so well, but goddamn he was great
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@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@MN5 said in The debate about 12:
I saw him at the pools the other day actually
Yeah, but did you have breakfast with him?
It was tempting to have a yarn to be honest but I chose not to.
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@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@MN5 said in The debate about 12:
Is there genuinely any former All Black who can match him for ability and longevity ?
Richard Hugh McCaw. The answer to any GOAT question.
But for 12s, he's it for me. Remarkably good player for a decade, and a huge loss when he stepped down. I still don't know how he managed to learn to pass so well, but goddamn he was great
Oh sorry, I meant at second five, not every other position too.
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@MN5 said in The debate about 12:
@Catogrande said in The debate about 12:
Nonu’s evolution was quite extraordinary seen from afar as at first he was looked on as just an effective battering ram, then the next time you see him he was beating guys with guile and pace. Fast forward another year and his passing game had become a strength. I wouldn’t have thought on first seeing him play that he would go on to be one of NZ’s best ever 12s. Kudos to the man.
Is there genuinely any former All Black who can match him for ability and longevity ?
I saw him at the pools the other day actually, just sitting watching his kids as I was watching mine. In a hoody and jeans he's pretty nondescript. Not someone you'd imagine terrifying opposition defences like he did for so long.
He was at the 7s a while ago, all dressed up as an avatar alien thing. Looked pretty fucking impressive there!
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@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@pakman said in The debate about 12:
@ACT-Crusader said in The debate about 12:
@DMX said in The debate about 12:
When Nonu was first moved to 12 for ABs in 2006 there was a lot of head scratching when Henry and co said they thought it was his best position. If I remember right he was chosen ahead of Mauger (maybe McAllister too?). I don't remember if he had already started playing there with the Canes?
He only played one test at 2nd 5 in 06. The others were at centre and off the bench stints at centre and on the wing. In 2006 there was a lot of rotation.
Then in 07 he only had a couple of brief stints off the bench at centre given Mauger and Lucky were the preferred 2nd 5s and Snakey, Mils and Ice the preferred centres.
Fast forward to after the RWC and Nonu and Snakey assume first choice midfield for the mid-season tests and then into the 3Ns. And as they say the rest is history.
In 2006 EOYT Snakey was part of demolition in first French test outside Lucky. Three different combinations. Nonu 13 vs England outside Mauger and 12 in 2nd French test inside Mils.
If only?
Don't forget the 19th test match between NZ and Ireland, 10 June 2006 at Hamilton. Nonu was at centre and from my memory had a massive, massive defensive miss on BOD that resulted in a try. People were saying he shouldn't ever play for the ABs again it was that bad.
we won 34-26, but it was tighter than we'd like (and some bad blood after Lions '05)
Edit:
If only we could dig up the Fern match thread for that test. The first half commentary, the world was going to end!
Lucky at 1st 5, the cartel had gone for the dual opensides which was getting widely lambasted, Rawlinson and Dermody debuts and getting a start, Flavell’s first test back from years in AB wilderness.
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@ACT-Crusader was that when it was Casey vs Ma'a for the AB centre spot?
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@ACT-Crusader said in The debate about 12:
@nzzp said in The debate about 12:
@pakman said in The debate about 12:
@ACT-Crusader said in The debate about 12:
@DMX said in The debate about 12:
When Nonu was first moved to 12 for ABs in 2006 there was a lot of head scratching when Henry and co said they thought it was his best position. If I remember right he was chosen ahead of Mauger (maybe McAllister too?). I don't remember if he had already started playing there with the Canes?
He only played one test at 2nd 5 in 06. The others were at centre and off the bench stints at centre and on the wing. In 2006 there was a lot of rotation.
Then in 07 he only had a couple of brief stints off the bench at centre given Mauger and Lucky were the preferred 2nd 5s and Snakey, Mils and Ice the preferred centres.
Fast forward to after the RWC and Nonu and Snakey assume first choice midfield for the mid-season tests and then into the 3Ns. And as they say the rest is history.
In 2006 EOYT Snakey was part of demolition in first French test outside Lucky. Three different combinations. Nonu 13 vs England outside Mauger and 12 in 2nd French test inside Mils.
If only?
Don't forget the 19th test match between NZ and Ireland, 10 June 2006 at Hamilton. Nonu was at centre and from my memory had a massive, massive defensive miss on BOD that resulted in a try. People were saying he shouldn't ever play for the ABs again it was that bad.
we won 34-26, but it was tighter than we'd like (and some bad blood after Lions '05)
Edit:
If only we could dig up the Fern match thread for that test. The first half commentary, the world was going to end!
Overreactions? Here? No way!
We are all level headed expert analysts of the game.
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@Toddy said in The debate about 12:
@ACT-Crusader was that when it was Casey vs Ma'a for the AB centre spot?
Laulala got the second Ireland test. But I think Casey was always a stopgap because of Snakey plus other options like Nonu, Mils and the cartel also had their eye on Toeava.
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I'll admit I was one of those who was in the cut Ma'a loose camp, I felt he had way too many chances and still wasnt upto it...
Hence why I am not an AB selector!
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@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I'll admit I was one of those who was in the cut Ma'a loose camp, I felt he had way too many chances and still wasnt upto it...
Hence why I am not an AB selector!
Having seen him pissed and getting arrested up Courtney Place many years back ( with a Hurricanes game only a day or two away if memory serves ) I would have completely agreed with you at the time.
His improvement and subsequent standing in the echelon of AB 12's is staggering.
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@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
Hence why I am not an AB selector!
It's not all selecting is it. They must have been actually able to teach Ma'a things. You could call it coaching perhaps. The passing and kicking game came on in leaps and bounds over a bit of time.
I was the same though, he kept getting selected with low yield results (initially).
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@Snowy as a selector you pick the guy first, but this is done with collaboration with the coaches.
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
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@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
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@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
Exhibit 1 for you can't always pick ABs on Super form.
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@DMX said in The debate about 12:
@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
Exhibit 1 for you can't always pick ABs on Super form.
Go back a decade with Bunce and his performances for the Chiefs.
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@Bovidae said in The debate about 12:
@DMX said in The debate about 12:
@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
Exhibit 1 for you can't always pick ABs on Super form.
Go back a decade with Bunce and his performances for the Chiefs.
Totally correct , exhibit 2 then.
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@Bovidae said in The debate about 12:
@DMX said in The debate about 12:
@Snowy said in The debate about 12:
@taniwharugby said in The debate about 12:
I think it was the Black jersey that drove Nonu
Absolutely. He was heaps better in black. His other coaches obviously didn't have the rapport with him, couldn't inspire him, whatever, but he did learn some skills when he was in the ABs.
Exhibit 1 for you can't always pick ABs on Super form.
Go back a decade with Bunce and his performances for the Chiefs.
do you guys remember that documentary in the 90s on Harbour rugby, and it seemed like they had one dude employed just to find Frank?
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@mariner4life Do you remember the doco title?
History of rugby union matches between Ireland and New Zealand - Wikipedia
