The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread
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@taniwharugby said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@gt12 not sure they didnt want the job, just timing...Rennie was advanced in his talks with Aus, assume JJ was being offered so much money...plus I dont think any of them were willing to work together (I mean Razor, Rennie & JJ....imagine that team
)Plus Brown. That would be a great team, but might be too many strong minds. Almost impossible for the NZRFU to push aside though.
The other point is that Rennie or Robertson could have both easily been assistants to Foz if they had wanted (not my preferred option, but we7d have a better team).
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@gt12 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@taniwharugby said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@gt12 not sure they didnt want the job, just timing...Rennie was advanced in his talks with Aus, assume JJ was being offered so much money...plus I dont think any of them were willing to work together (I mean Razor, Rennie & JJ....imagine that team
)Plus Brown. That would be a great team, but might be too many strong minds. Almost impossible for the NZRFU to push aside though.
The other point is that Rennie or Robertson could have both easily been assistants to Foz if they had wanted (not my preferred option, but we7d have a better team).
This shows one of the major flaws in having people apply in coaching “teams”.
It pretty much guarantees that you will split up your best candidates and end up with substandard coaches.
Sure combinations and relationships are important but shouldn’t be the only factor. We expect players from different franchises to work together. Why not coaches? -
@pukunui Like Hart and Wyllie in 1991? Maybe professionalism has changed that dynamic but I doubt it.
In theory you would hope coaches from different teams and with different philosophies could work together, but I don't think it is that simple. You run the risk of putting too many "head coaches" together which usually leads to problems when personalities, responsibility and egos are involved.
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But why don't you appoint a head coach then work on recruiting the assistants.
Maybe as part of your application for HC you nominate groups of candidates that you may want to work with, that the organisation can negotiate with after the head appointment.
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@booboo said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
But why don't you appoint a head coach then work on recruiting the assistants.
So we would have had Deans in 2007 because Henry's point of difference was that he had Hansen and Smith in his corner. Deans had Pat Lam.
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@gt12 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Chris-B the other thing is, Rennie & Joseph knew the role was going to be up for grabs, assume they thought Fozzie would get it, or maybe Razor would, so didnt bother applying, then we were left with the 2 horse race we got...
The biggest problem there is that the ideal team would have been Robertson plus Rennie or Joseph, Brown, Robertson. That type of team would make it much harder for the NZRFU to go with Fozzie and ??
The problem was that neither Rennie (fucking traitor) nor Joseph really wanted the job, and that Brown didn't them join up with Robertson. Him by himself is just not attractive enough to make the big change.
It looks very attractive to me now,Robertson on his own, then I wouldn't have to go through years of limp arse performances and teams being named on a Friday BS selections and no game plan under an uninspiring coach in Foster.
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I have witnessed first hand the work the 2012 /13 Chiefs forwards did on a paddock away from the main training ground.These were scrum ,maul,body moving drills that got so intense we witnessed a punch up between two aggrieved participants.Speaking to the coach later he said he was pleased with both players attitude.One putting in a hard hit and the other retaliating.Win ,win he said. By the way Dave Rennie was nowhere to be seen.He would be working on his back plays before the forwards joined them,fired up and ready to go.
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@trodthesod who was the forwards coach at the Chiefs during that time?
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@ACT-Crusader Coventry. Current Blues forwards coach.
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@KiwiMurph said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@ACT-Crusader Coventry. Current Blues forwards coach.
Thanks. I wasn’t sure if Coventry was there from day 1 with Rennie.
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Rennie,Coventry ,Smith,Strawbridge,Hoeft
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There was a line of Japanese walnuts along the fence line,but it was nice and shady under them,so the intense drills were carried out there.The only trouble was on the ground were millions of nuts which grieved the boys somewhat.The lush turf of the Waikato Stadium must have been bliss after the walnut paddock!
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@Bovidae said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@pukunui Like Hart and Wyllie in 1991? Maybe professionalism has changed that dynamic but I doubt it.
In theory you would hope coaches from different teams and with different philosophies could work together, but I don't think it is that simple. You run the risk of putting too many "head coaches" together which usually leads to problems when personalities, responsibility and egos are involved.
I was only 6 at the time so a bit before my time.
No reason the panel couldn’t say to the head coach applicant “these are the guys we are considering for the assistant roles, if you can’t work with them we will take that into consideration in your potential appointment.” -
@pukunui said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bovidae said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@pukunui Like Hart and Wyllie in 1991? Maybe professionalism has changed that dynamic but I doubt it.
In theory you would hope coaches from different teams and with different philosophies could work together, but I don't think it is that simple. You run the risk of putting too many "head coaches" together which usually leads to problems when personalities, responsibility and egos are involved.
I was only 6 at the time so a bit before my time.
No reason the panel couldn’t say to the head coach applicant “these are the guys we are considering for the assistant roles, if you can’t work with them we will take that into consideration in your potential appointment.”I don't see how that is workable. For each assistant role there'd be numerous contenders and they may have quite disparate coaching philosophies. Best to let them work out who they want to work with and present a compelling case.
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@antipodean said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@pukunui said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bovidae said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@pukunui Like Hart and Wyllie in 1991? Maybe professionalism has changed that dynamic but I doubt it.
In theory you would hope coaches from different teams and with different philosophies could work together, but I don't think it is that simple. You run the risk of putting too many "head coaches" together which usually leads to problems when personalities, responsibility and egos are involved.
I was only 6 at the time so a bit before my time.
No reason the panel couldn’t say to the head coach applicant “these are the guys we are considering for the assistant roles, if you can’t work with them we will take that into consideration in your potential appointment.”I don't see how that is workable. For each assistant role there'd be numerous contenders and they may have quite disparate coaching philosophies. Best to let them work out who they want to work with and present a compelling case.
Isn’t it like this in pretty much every other industry in the world? You aren’t hiring a team of contractors who come as an existing team. You are hiring employees to fill specific roles.
Not saying it’s perfect but clearly the current method isn’t perfect either because we have ended up with a coaching team full of totally uninspiring choices who would be well down the list of NZ coaches world wide. -
@pukunui good in theory, but I guess you still get the issue where the coaching pool is relatively small, most know one another, likely if they could work with them: Brown could likely have had the assistant job if he wanted it - but he obviously felt he worked better with JJ so didn't apply.
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@chimoaus said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@No-Quarter I agree, Rennie just oozes Rugby IQ, like this guy knows what he is talking about. Fozzie looks like he is an expert at the Maccas menu.
He's also a good guy from cultural perspective to take custody of the change in personnel in Aus rugby from the traditional private school rah-rah types to a more Kiwi/Polynesian player base. I never really thought a lot of those players would have been that keen on a shouty, sweary, Cheika-type coach
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@junior said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@chimoaus said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@No-Quarter I agree, Rennie just oozes Rugby IQ, like this guy knows what he is talking about. Fozzie looks like he is an expert at the Maccas menu.
He's also a good guy from cultural perspective to take custody of the change in personnel in Aus rugby from the traditional private school rah-rah types to a more Kiwi/Polynesian player base. I never really thought a lot of those players would have been that keen on a shouty, sweary, Cheika-type coach
I'm fairly sure by the end of his tenure absolutely none of the Wobs woulda been keen on the Kebab Store owner. If he lost his shit like that in the coaches box imagine the tantrums behind closed doors ?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Derpus said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@chimoaus Raelene knew two years in advance of the RWC that Cheika was fucking pants. She just couldn't get rid of him because a) no money to pay out contract and b) no decent alternatives off contract. That's why Johnson was brought in as DoR - to try and reign Cheika in as much as possible.
Rennie was lined up well in advance. Seems her succession planning was just a bit ahead of youse guys.
I really rated Raelene...
Yeah she did a brilliant job with Foulhow.
Those millions spent sucking up to the sponsor was money well spent. Sorry, ex-sponsor 😉
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@Siam said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Derpus said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@chimoaus Raelene knew two years in advance of the RWC that Cheika was fucking pants. She just couldn't get rid of him because a) no money to pay out contract and b) no decent alternatives off contract. That's why Johnson was brought in as DoR - to try and reign Cheika in as much as possible.
Rennie was lined up well in advance. Seems her succession planning was just a bit ahead of youse guys.
I really rated Raelene...
Yeah she did a brilliant job with Foulhow.
Those millions spent sucking up to the sponsor was money well spent. Sorry, ex-sponsor 😉
Yeah that went well. I'm sure there's a lesson in there somewhere.
