AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?
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@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
We don't have a Nonu available. Laumape isn't that either as his distribution is more like Nonu c2003.
You need to have all 3 on the field so that's (11) Ioane, (12) ALB and (13) Goodhue.
ALB is not an outstanding 12, but he's much better there than Goodhue. I don't mind that combination with Rieko at 11. It also allows us to move Rieko into 13 later in the game where his running game may be more useful.
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@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Crucial said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Word. Clarke had to be in, he is a real weapon with all the extra skills.
Needs a touch more experience and he looks like he could be Bridge with a bit more power.
Clarke is young, but needs to get himself more involved if the ball isn't going his way.
how many games had our starting wingers in a RWC semi final played? combined? If you are good enough...
I'm pretty over the "safe" wing spot. I think the trench warfare of test rugby needs a couple of game breakers out wide.
Agree with this. Look at the Pom and Safe wings at the 2019 RWC and every one of them had that "extra" ability to beat a man, which can be a crucial outlet in a tight test match. Look at the value the Poms got out of their wings in that semi as compared to the 3/5 of fuck all we got from ours. It was almost like they'd swapped jerseys before the match. Similarly, the Saffa wings were absolutely terrific in the final, especially late on when defenders are fatigues and there to be beaten by someone capable of using a bit of footwork.
Maybe apart from Jonny May who was a cripple that got run down by Scott Barrett.
Granted, in that match, yes. But, he's generally got that very express pace that allows him to beat a man consistently and turn a kick chase into a real weapon. For all George's ability to run really fast in a straight line, I'm not sure we have have that (although in fairness to George this may have more to do with a shit kicking game).
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@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
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@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
One hopes. I think the bench is crucial too.
Allowing me to pick some injured players, I think we would be very dangerous if we can get the following players in form:
- Ofa 18. Ta'avao/ Lomax
I don't see Angus in the frame. Right time, right place for him last year.
Now that Cron is gone we might see Ofa used as a TH prop for the ABs, instead of playing most of his minutes on the LH side.
I would prefer Laulala to start at TH and bring Ofa off the bench. That is the best way to use both players. Lomax has gone backwards this year.
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Victor Meldrewreplied to Crucial on 14 Jul 2020, 09:54 last edited by Victor Meldrew 14 Jul 2020, 10:09
@Crucial said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Reiko needs to be left at centre now. He has made the move a bit earlier than most wingers but now he has, he needs to develop the experience there. Moving him around again will be a backward step.
Kinda agree. His confidence seemed to go in 2019 and he's too good a player to ignore and needs handling carefully.
Can't see him being the starting 13 over Goodhue at the moment though. I think his best position in any new AB squad is as a 13 who can also play 11 & 14.
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@Victor-Meldrew it worked for Kahui
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I agree actually - Moli would be a way better bet for the future if he went back to TH.
I don’t think Laulala is playing well. He’s been a liability with his handling and does piss all with the ball in hand.
I’m not sure how great he is as a lifter and I’ll need to watch his clean work better, but I think Ofa is playing better all around.
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@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
Beaudy is quite large for a ten, and all nines are midgets nowadays, so not sure about this point?
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@canefan said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Victor-Meldrew it worked for Kahui
Don't disagree, just think he needs handling carefully.
Kahui - what a loss he was.
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@gt12 I have thought Laulala has been better as a ball-carrier in the last 2 games than he has before. All relative I know, but he has taken the ball at speed and made some metres. He also doesn't give away as many scrum penalties as Ofa does. Ross has been the Chiefs prop having the dropsies.
Big Karl offers you the punch off the bench on the LH side. Moli is a big unit and the most mobile of the props along with Ofa. We've got less depth at LH so I can understand why he was asked to play there.
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Against the Crusaders I think Laulala ran for about 6 metres off 4 runs, and made as many tackles as he missed (3/3) while giving away two penalties.
Against the Saders, Ofa went for a bit less metres (3), And gave away two penalties, but made 13 tackles and missed 1.
I’m not sure there is significant support for Ofa being a penalty magnet nor Laulala being a safer scrummager - and if he is he probably loses it by being offside or other indiscretions and through missed tackles.
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@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I agree, but I’d like to see us getting props who can use their size too.
One of the biggest things that Ireland and England had were ball runners in the front 3, and we’ve got fuck all out of ours for too long.
Agree with this. If we can't more out of the fat blokes, we have a little bit more flexibility in the types of players we pick in our back 5.
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Mmmmm
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@Machpants said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
Beaudy is quite large for a ten, and all nines are midgets nowadays, so not sure about this point?
You assume Beauty will be at 10...?
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Aaron
Beaudy
Clarke
Jordie
Ioane
Reece
Jordan -
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Machpants said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
Beaudy is quite large for a ten, and all nines are midgets nowadays, so not sure about this point?
You assume Beauty will be at 10...?
Yes I do
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I’m glad you are coming around to my way of thinking. I’m not pleased with Moody either, but Moody’s problems don’t make up for Laulala’s weaknesses.
But to answer the question:
Against Blues:
6 runs, 8 metres
8 tackles, 2 misses
2 penaltiesAgainst Landers:
5 runs, 12 metres
7 tackles made, 3 missed, 3 turnovers
2 penaltiesAgainst Chiefs:
No runs, no metres - very Owen Franks like
7 tackles made, 3 missed
No penalties ties -
@gt12 Moody misses a lot of tackles. I decided to punish myself the other night and watched the RWC semi again, and the two things that stood out in terms of defence was just how incredibly passive our defence was and how many tackles Moody missed. Unfortunately there's nobody better at this stage so he stays at loosehead. I have been relatively impressed with his carrying game in SRA but he needs to improve his tackling.
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@canefan said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@akan004 passive is a great description. They got over the gain line with relative ease without a Jerome Kaino or a Richie McCaw to smash them back
Yeah, and no line speed too. It worries me that we have retained the same defence coach. Compare our defensive system to SA's and England's and it's like we have forgotten that the game has moved on and are still defending like it's 2015. Blitz defence is the way to go atm.
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@canefan said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@akan004 passive is a great description. They got over the gain line with relative ease without a Jerome Kaino or a Richie McCaw to smash them back. And with Sam Cane on the bench....
And Read left his shoulder in 2015....
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@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@canefan said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@akan004 passive is a great description. They got over the gain line with relative ease without a Jerome Kaino or a Richie McCaw to smash them back. And with Sam Cane on the bench....
And Read left his shoulder in 2015....
In the same place Sam Whitelock left his composure....
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@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Crucial said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Word. Clarke had to be in, he is a real weapon with all the extra skills.
Needs a touch more experience and he looks like he could be Bridge with a bit more power.
Clarke is young, but needs to get himself more involved if the ball isn't going his way.
Saw somewhere that Bridge was one of the fastest in AB squad, along with Rieko, BB and DMac.
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@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 Dmac looks as far from test level as possible this year. Maybe he'll be better next year when his knee is in better condition. Moli is dog shit at loosehead. Better at tighthead.
Hodgman would be my no 3 at LH, if that makes sense!
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@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@KiwiMurph said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
One thing in Lomax's favour is the ABs forwards coach has plenty of knowledge about him.
I quite like him - definitely doesn't go backwards. Solid in contact (like Moli), just needs to knuckle down and play rugby.
Sometimes just goes down. Quite a lot to learn.
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@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 I have thought Laulala has been better as a ball-carrier in the last 2 games than he has before. All relative I know, but he has taken the ball at speed and made some metres. He also doesn't give away as many scrum penalties as Ofa does. Ross has been the Chiefs prop having the dropsies.
Big Karl offers you the punch off the bench on the LH side. Moli is a big unit and the most mobile of the props along with Ofa. We've got less depth at LH so I can understand why he was asked to play there.
IMO our TH depth scrummaging wise is poor. Laulala is very solid, but no one else seems top tier test level.
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@Machpants said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Mmmmm
Yep that’s not far away from what’s we will see come selection time
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@Chris said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Machpants said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Mmmmm
Yep that’s not far away from what’s we will see come selection time
This will trigger @Bones when he wakes up
"Standing at 2.04m and 119kg, you would be hard-pressed to find anyone in New Zealand with a bigger frame than the 23-year-old, and it’s for that reason that there has been anticipation for a few seasons surrounding his future as a potential All Black.
Parkinson has come of age this year, though, as he’s given the Highlanders a safe option at the lineout while upping the tempo on attack as he continues to learn how to best utilise his massive body on the field".
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@akan004 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@canefan said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@akan004 passive is a great description. They got over the gain line with relative ease without a Jerome Kaino or a Richie McCaw to smash them back
Yeah, and no line speed too. It worries me that we have retained the same defence coach. Compare our defensive system to SA's and England's and it's like we have forgotten that the game has moved on and are still defending like it's 2015. Blitz defence is the way to go atm.
It’s interesting, because I got that feeling during the wc ,
We have gone from being the innovators to being left behind , when it comes to defence in particular
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@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Foster's starting forwards will probably be the following, and it will be a big wet turd. Then we'll thrash Australia and there will be one hundred posts about how good they are.
- Moody
- Taylor
- Laulala
- Whitelock
- Barrett
- Frizell
- Cane
- Savea
I doubt Barrett starts given his lack of game time.
Laulala?
Whether they go with Frizell is definitely up in the air. Not that he isn’t playing well and is showing a level and consistency we probably haven’t seen to date, but if they go with the two experienced loosies (Cane and Savea), there is an opportunity to look at Akira, Sotutu or MMT
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@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@akan004 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@canefan said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@akan004 passive is a great description. They got over the gain line with relative ease without a Jerome Kaino or a Richie McCaw to smash them back
Yeah, and no line speed too. It worries me that we have retained the same defence coach. Compare our defensive system to SA's and England's and it's like we have forgotten that the game has moved on and are still defending like it's 2015. Blitz defence is the way to go atm.
It’s interesting, because I got that feeling during the wc ,
We have gone from being the innovators to being left behind , when it comes to defence in particular
Our defensive structure looks needlessly complicated and designed to have people ready to exploit counter attack opportunities. Opportunities that we couldn't organise but provided others.
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Whether they go with Frizell is definitely up in the air. Not that he isn’t playing well and is showing a level and consistency we probably haven’t seen to date, but if they go with the two experienced loosies (Cane and Savea), there is an opportunity to look at Akira, Sotutu or MMT
Frizell is approaching that age where experience and maturity make good blindsides.
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@antipodean said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Whether they go with Frizell is definitely up in the air. Not that he isn’t playing well and is showing a level and consistency we probably haven’t seen to date, but if they go with the two experienced loosies (Cane and Savea), there is an opportunity to look at Akira, Sotutu or MMT
Frizell is approaching that age where experience and maturity make good blindsides.
Sweet, there's hope for Fifita then who of late has made Rueben Thorne seem dynamic and visible.
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@MN5 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Machpants said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Mmmmm
Yep that’s not far away from what’s we will see come selection time
This will trigger @Bones when he wakes up
"Standing at 2.04m and 119kg, you would be hard-pressed to find anyone in New Zealand with a bigger frame than the 23-year-old, and it’s for that reason that there has been anticipation for a few seasons surrounding his future as a potential All Black.
Parkinson has come of age this year, though, as he’s given the Highlanders a safe option at the lineout while upping the tempo on attack as he continues to learn how to best utilise his massive body on the field".
Wow does that something about the size of our locks now ,scary we need some big young units coming through eh @Bones
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@Chris said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@MN5 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Machpants said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Mmmmm
Yep that’s not far away from what’s we will see come selection time
This will trigger @Bones when he wakes up
"Standing at 2.04m and 119kg, you would be hard-pressed to find anyone in New Zealand with a bigger frame than the 23-year-old, and it’s for that reason that there has been anticipation for a few seasons surrounding his future as a potential All Black.
Parkinson has come of age this year, though, as he’s given the Highlanders a safe option at the lineout while upping the tempo on attack as he continues to learn how to best utilise his massive body on the field".
Wow does that something about the size of our locks now ,scary we need some big young units coming through eh @Bones
Any chance you can translate that to English fella?
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@Chris said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones excuse my fat fingers Wow does that say something about the size of our locks now ,scary we need some big young units coming through the system
BETTER ??
I don't really know what you're trying to say, so no.
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All Blacks coach Ian Foster has hinted a major change could be coming to the make-up of his starting fifteen.
Foster's confirmed he'll stick with dual playmakers when the international season gets underway, but it appears it's game-on as to who will get the fullback spot. It was a much-maligned strategy since its inception under Steve Hansen, and the tactic won't be going anywhere under Foster. But that doesn't mean there won't be changes, with Foster hinting the current combination of Richie Mo'unga and Beauden Barrett is no certainty to continue. "It's a style that is part of our game," Foster tells Newshub. "But the names that fulfill it, well we've got the ability to mix and match there. "The good thing is we've got more options in that space in terms of personnel." Foster feels one of five players could fill the fullback position - Beauden Barrett, Jordie Barrett, Damian McKenzie, David Havili and Will Jordan. Barrett played all but two of his All Blacks tests at fullback last year. But it seems even the player seen as one of the best in the world has a challenge on his hands to retain his starting spot. "The fact is we've now got some fullbacks who are really putting their hands up as well, so we've got a lot more options in terms of fulfilling that double playmaker," Foster notes. One man Foster doesn't have any questions over is Blue captain Patrick Tuipulotu. "He's been outstanding," Foster says. "He was one of the players I phoned up in January and just wanted to make sure he was really aware of the opportunity that he had." Along with the makeup of the loose forwards, the locking situation is what's causing Foster the most headaches.
Note the comments about Tuipulotu.
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