Hang on a sec

jegga

Cheers Cato that was an interesting take , I was reading this <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.3news.co.nz/world/majority-of-brits-would-leave-eu---poll-2016010715'>https://www.3news.co.nz/world/majority-of-brits-would-leave-eu---poll-2016010715</a>

Catogrande

I'm always a bit sceptical about such polls to be honest. As in most elections there are the die hard fors and againsts and it is the middle ground that decide things. Experience shows me that on one off referendums there is a very high chance of there being no change because people don't like and fear change. Then there is the transient nature of many of the people who say they are for change, taking an overly emotive stance which many back down from, either because their particular fear has been assuaged or they are all wind and piss in the first place and are just blowing off steam.
 
One of the things I have to do in my work is to try and ascertain clients' appetite for investment risk on an ongoing basis. The first step in this is to get them to complete a short questionnaire to arrive at a score which is then the basis for further discussion. It may come as no surprise but almost any client will exhibit a seemingly greater appetite for risk if their recent experience has been good and vice-versa if their investments have disappointed. I feel that there is a significant element of this in the current polling - strip out the immigrant issue and I reckon the results would be quite different. So Cameron's task is to make the immigrant issue as irrelevant as possible for the UK and then it should be mission accomplished. If not I feel the vote will be close but still for remaining in the EU. Also, don't forget, the wording on the referendum voting slips has yet to be revealed, don't under-estimate the slipperiness of the politicians to frame it to suit their agendas. A simple in or out? I doubt it.

jegga

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11571501'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11571501</a> 
I'm quite surprised he got to do 19 universities before it made the news.

Rancid Schnitzel

I think Britain will stay in the EU. From the outside looking in it seems to be like a man contemplating leaving his wife. Yes she's become fat and bloated, nags too much and costs you shit loads of money. Yes she has stupid rules and doesn't give a damn what you think. But you've been together for so long that the thought of being without her is farking scary. A divorce will also be ridiculously complicated and involve all manner of legal bullshit. Add the fact that she still gives the very occasional blow job. What happens if I leave and never get another bj? Taking all that into account, maybe it's best to go with the safe option.

Rancid Schnitzel

The response to the Germany thing has been quite incredible. Women get molested so the solution is for them to dress conservatively, stay in groups, and keep an "arms length" distance from strange men. What next? Gay men should act less camp and not hold hands to avoid being bashed? 
What the hell is going on?

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="551564" data-time="1452324357">The response to the Germany thing has been quite incredible. Women get molested so the solution is for them to dress conservatively, stay in groups, and keep an "arms length" distance from strange men. What next? Gay men should act less camp and not hold hands to avoid being bashed? 
What the hell is going on?</blockquote>
 
The obvious solution is for women to dress from head to toe in a shapeless black outfit and never leave the house without a chaperone . 
Gays are really out of luck unfortunately , either a sex change like gays are forced to have in Iran or a one way trip to the quarry .

Donsteppa

I found this article from the Guardian to be.... something - I'm not quite sure what.<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve'> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve</a>
 
Dig into the first full page of the comments sections... ignore the "Guardian picks" comments - but note how relatively few likes the Guardian Picks have compared to the main responses on the first page or so. e.g
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Finally, after several days of refusing to report the biggest story of 2016 so far because it does not fit with its highly ideological driven narrative, this paper is allowing comments on a story which has shown its contempt for victims of sexual assault. It's predictable enough that the first writer to tackle this does not ask why the Mayor of Cologne and many on the left are blaming the victims themselves for their own rapes. The writer should at least acknowledge the only solution left available to citizens, when the police cannot protect them from clear danger and politicians blame victims for the crime simply because the perpetrator was a foreign male of arabic extraction, is to arm themselves. Please never print another article on women's rights ever again, you have no credibility on this issue and owe those on the opposite side of the political spectrum who have now been proved correct a massive apology. I write this as a guardian reader and buyer of 17 years and someone who has always voted for left of centre parties (both of which I won't be doing ever again).
</blockquote>
 
(1907 likes thus far).
 
You know the political bias when you go to the Guardian (or the Telegraph for that matter), but I've rarely seen a comments section so full and so out of sync with the general political/ideological thrust of a paper.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="551571" data-time="1452328128">I found this article from the Guardian to be.... something - I'm not quite sure what. 
 
Dig into the first full page of the comments sections... ignore the "Guardian picks" comments - but note how relatively few likes the Guardian Picks have compared to the main responses on the first page or so. 
 <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve">http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve</a> 
 
 
(1907 likes thus far). 
 
You know the political bias when you go to the Guardian (or the Telegraph for that matter), but I've rarely seen the comments so out of sync with the general political/ideological thrust of the paper.</blockquote>
 
Cheers for that, pretty astounding really . It reminds me of the election coverage in 2014 , the media were completely out of step with the mood of the country. Like I said on the blocked thread I blame the apologists almost as much as the ferals behaving like this. Bloody glad we didn't import a bunch if people who don't give a shit about our laws or way of life like the Germans did. 
My son showed me my fuckwit of a sisters Facebook page, there's a picture of the dead toddler on the beach and a petition calling on John Key to open our country to "Syrian refugees" . The media and leftards certainly got some mileage out of that shot , this what the leftard blogs were saying at the time. <a class="bbc_url" href="https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/nothing-will-come-of-nothing-2/">https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/nothing-will-come-of-nothing-2/</a> <a class="bbc_url" href="http://thestandard.org.nz/syrian-refugees-national-backs-down/">http://thestandard.org.nz/syrian-refugees-national-backs-down/</a>

Donsteppa

However... :)
 
You've linked a commentary on raising the refugee numbers on the Standard. I'm as wary of using the Cologne attacks to argue the NZ refugee quota number as I am of someone using the "open our country to Syrian refugees" line
 
On the whole, New Zealand has done a very good job with resettling refugees over a number of years. That's because of a very un-German like selection process:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_migration_into_New_Zealand'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_migration_into_New_Zealand</a>
 
"Since 1976 more than 40,000 refugees have settled and built a future in New Zealand."... I liked reading that as it put NZ's consistent effort over time into good context. Broadly speaking refugees get no more 'bad' publicity than any other group of the population here. I also played rugby with a very handy Cambodian first five and a nippy winger - both of whom were (by then) adult children of Cambodian refugees who had resettled in Hamilton :) 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
New Zealand is one of fewer than 20 countries to offer a resettlement programme and has done so for more than 20 years. Even fewer countries make a commitment like New Zealand to reserving a place for women at risk, medical/disabled, and emergency protection cases within their quota. In doing so they offer a preferential option for those who are already marginalised and vulnerable, and the most difficult to place. For this New Zealand has gained international respect for its <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarianism' title="Humanitarianism">humanitarianism</a>.
In addition to this quota New Zealand receives <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_seekers' title="Asylum seekers">asylum seekers</a>, whose claim is then either approved or declined by the Refugee Status Branch of the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_New_Zealand' title="Immigration New Zealand">Immigration New Zealand</a>, or by the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_Status_Appeals_Authority' title="Refugee Status Appeals Authority">Refugee Status Appeals Authority</a>. In 2005, 1,585 refugee status applications were received, but only 12.5% were found to be genuine.
</blockquote>
 
Regarding the bold, we're not an easy touch as sometimes assumed. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/general/generalinformation/refugee-protection/refugee-statistics.htm'>http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/general/generalinformation/refugee-protection/refugee-statistics.htm</a> has the latest official stats. It's easier to be declined than approved: <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/00CBC69E-AB63-4C2A-876C-6A1BE7AFA2E8/0/RSBRefugeeandProtectionStatPak.pdf'>http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/00CBC69E-AB63-4C2A-876C-6A1BE7AFA2E8/0/RSBRefugeeandProtectionStatPak.pdf</a>
 
There's also a (yes, biased - but interesting) Q&A at <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.caritas.org.nz/sites/default/files/Refugee Myths and Realities_0.pdf'>http://www.caritas.org.nz/sites/default/files/Refugee Myths and Realities_0.pdf</a> that makes some observations from an NZ perspective.
 
There are a number of good arguments for or against accepting refugees, or shifting the quota from 750 to 1000, 500, 1500, or 0, or staying the same. People might prefer the money to be spent elsewhere (or more money to be spent), philosophical objections (or are bleeding heart liberals), the economy is now bigger than in 1987 (or charity begins at home), etc...
 
Though "See that picture!! we must open the door let all the poor Syrians in", or "Fuck Off, look at Cologne FFS!!" are rough arguments in a New Zealand context. (Though Germany and Europe seem to be a whole other kettle of fish...)
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Jegga: Bloody glad we didn't import a bunch if people who don't give a shit about our laws or way of life like the Germans did.
</blockquote>
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-take-750-more-syrian-refugees'>http://beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-take-750-more-syrian-refugees</a> - a good, pragmatic approach. Especially note the screening process (italics mine):
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
What is the process for the 600 additional places and how soon will the refugees arrive in New Zealand? 
The process for the 600 additional places will be the same as any intake under the current quota. 
The UNHCR carries out its own screening process and does not refer high risk or complex cases for resettlement.
In addition to this, all cases submitted for consideration undergo robust assessments as part of INZâ€™s decision-making process. That includes on and off-shore screening and assessment that focuses on credibility, risk and settlement to ensure that the person is not a security risk or character of concern to New Zealand, and that settlement in New Zealand is the right option for them. 
INZ also specifically carries out its own security checks alongside NZSIS, biometric checks and health assessments.
INZ will undertake an initial mission to Lebanon in October and another in December for the current year. The first 250 selected for resettlement will arrive in New Zealand in three groups â€“ anticipated to be January, March and May 2016.
</blockquote>
 
There's a huge amount of paid and unpaid effort that goes into refugee re-settlement in NZ. (For anyone in one of the NZ refugee resettlement cities who is interested - Red Cross are always looking for good volunteers: <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.redcross.org.nz/what-we-do/in-new-zealand/refugee-services/'>https://www.redcross.org.nz/what-we-do/in-new-zealand/refugee-services/</a> :))

jegga

I thought it was interesting to read the rants from the left of the spectrum when the refugee crisis was dominating the headlines. I'm not using Cologne as an excuse to stop us taking in refugees from the middle east , I never wanted them in the first place for reasons I've been banging on about winger style for months now. Unlike Winger though I've been proven right. 
Those were interesting stories about how we take our refugee quota . I've wondered why our bakeries seem to be run by Cambodians , I asked one day and apparently when they ended up here as boat people after fleeing the Khner Rouge baking was a trade a lot of them went into as the govt of the day helped them get qualified and into a job to help settle them here . If you check out the Bakels pie awards 8 or 9 of the top ten are usually Cambodian names.

Donsteppa

I re-read your post and deleted my reply as I'd missed an important qualifier... so as long as NZ finds refugees who will keep us in top quality mince and cheese you're happy? :)

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="551672" data-time="1452408088">
I re-read your post and deleted my reply as I'd missed an important qualifier... so as long as NZ finds refugees who will keep us in top quality mince and cheese you're happy? :)</blockquote>
 
Pretty much , there's enough kebab places near me so I'm sorted there for Mid East food.

jegga

Actually since I bought up the standard , there's no mention of Cologne or when you type the name into the search either. I was expecting that guardian article to be up there .

jegga

There were similar plans in Finland, at the end of the article it mentions the inevitable backlash that I'm sure is building throughout Europe
 
 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12088332/Unprecedented-sex-harassment-in-Helsinki-at-New-Year-Finnish-police-report.html'>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12088332/Unprecedented-sex-harassment-in-Helsinki-at-New-Year-Finnish-police-report.html</a>
 
<div style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif;font-size:10px;">
Asylum seekers who met in central Helsinki to celebrate New Yearsâ€™s Eve â€œhad similar plansâ€ to <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12088994/Cologne-sex-attacks-Two-immigrant-suspects-arrested-carrying-note-in-German-and-Arabic-saying-I-want-to-have-sex-with-you.html'>commit sexual assault and other crimes as those who targeted women</a> in the Germany city of Cologne, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/'>Finnish</a> Police have reported.
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif;font-size:10px;">
Three Iraqi asylum seekers have been arrested for committing sexual assaults during the celebrations in the cityâ€™s Senate Square, where some 20,000 had gathered.
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif;font-size:10px;">
Security personnel reported â€œwidespead sexual harrassmentâ€ during the celebrations, police added, with women complaining that asylum seekers had groped their breasts and kissed them without permission.
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif;font-size:10px;">
â€œThis phenomenon is new in Finnish sexual crime history,â€ Ilkka Koskimaki, the deputy chief of police in Helsinki, told the Telegraph. â€We have never before had this kind of sexual harrassment happening at New Yearâ€™s Eve.â€
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif;font-size:10px;">
He said that the police had received tip-offs from staff at the asylum reception centres.
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', times, serif;font-size:10px;">
â€œOur information from these reception centres were that disturbances or other crimes would happen in the city centre. We were prepared for fights and sexual harrassment and thefts.â€
He said that police had established a â€œvery massive presenceâ€ to control the estimated 1,000 Iraqi asylum seekers who had gathered in the tunnels surrounding the central railway station by 11pm, many of whom appeared to be under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
Mr Koskimaki said that sexual assults in parks and on the streets had been unknown in Finland before a record 32,000 asylum seekers arrived in 2015, making the 14 cases last year â€œbig news in the city
â€œWe had unfortunately some very brutal cases in autumn,â€ he said. â€œI donâ€™t know so well other cultures, but I have recognised that the thinking of some of them is very different. Some of them maybe think that it is allowed to be aggressive and touch ladies on the street.â€
Jamel Saltne, a Finnish-speaking Iraqi, said that from what he had seen on Arabic social media, police had wrongly portrayed events.
"What happened was not the result of an action planned in advance," he told the Telegraph. "It was totally expected that young men would go to the centre of the capital as that is the best place to celebrate New Year's Eve."
"I'm not accusing the police of racism, but maybe they have received complaints intended to smear people."
The rapes have fuelled anger among some Finns at last year's record asylum figures, with the country registering the fourth highest number per capita in the European Union.
Unarmed militia groups calling themselves â€œSoldiers of Odinâ€, wearing black jackets and hats marked â€œS.O.Oâ€, have sprung up in several towns in Finland where asylum seekers are housed, claiming they want to protect citizens from â€œIslamic intrudersâ€.
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12088332/Finnish-government-condemns-racist-attack-on-refugees-in-Lahti.html'>Petteri Orpo, Finnish interior minister, condemned the groups</a> in an interview with national broadcaster YLE on Thursday.
â€œThere are extremist features to carrying out street patrols. It does not increase security,â€ he said.
</div>

NTA

The mosque up the road celebrated its 25 year anniversary last year and hosts an annual Australia Day event. Flag raising, anthem, all that.
 
 
Hard to think that they could get that up and running back in the 80s when it was all basically farms, rednecks, and bogans. 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baitul_Huda_Mosque,_Sydney'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baitul_Huda_Mosque,_Sydney</a>

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="553785" data-time="1453424008">
<div>
The mosque up the road celebrated its 25 year anniversary last year and hosts an annual Australia Day event. Flag raising, anthem, all that.
 
 
Hard to think that they could get that up and running back in the 80s when it was all basically farms, rednecks, and bogans. 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baitul_Huda_Mosque,_Sydney'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baitul_Huda_Mosque,_Sydney</a>
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Good on them.The best bit from that wiki link, 
 
Ahmadiyya Muslim Association Australia national spokesman Aziz Omer said, "We are loyal to Australia and we want our kids to be loyal to Australia", with association members delivering 500,000 Loyalty to Homeland leaflets. Australia Day celebrations at the mosque includes a flag-raising ceremony, the singing of the national anthem and a barbecue.

Catogrande

Looks like you Kiwis have a handle on how to manage the migrant crisis... Utilise the natural resources of the country to help apprehend the buggers. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/A978/production/_87848334_87848333.jpg'>http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/A978/production/_87848334_87848333.jpg</a>

Tim

Wot's all that about, Cato?

Catogrande

From the BBC - it says fugitives here but the headline stated migrants. A flock of sheep has come to the aid of New Zealand police, stopping a car-load of fugitives who had led officers on a high-speed chase across Central Otago. The driver, initially pulled over for speeding and having no licence plates, evaded capture for 90 minutes. The fugitives even managed to continue after road spikes deployed by officers destroyed one of their vehicle's tyres. They were finally halted by the sheep, which blocked the road entirely as they were being moved to new pasture. In a coincidence, the sheep were reported to be owned by a local police officer from Queenstown. All four fugitives were arrested.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="553873" data-time="1453469141">
<div>
Looks like you Kiwis have a handle on how to manage the migrant crisis... 
Utilise the natural resources of the country to help apprehend the buggers. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/A978/production/_87848334_87848333.jpg'>http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/A978/production/_87848334_87848333.jpg</a>
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Its made the top 10 kiwi things that ever happened <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/76154270/the-10-most-kiwi-things-that-have-ever-happened'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/76154270/the-10-most-kiwi-things-that-have-ever-happened</a>

The Silver Fern

Hang on a sec