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jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="551401" data-time="1452210326"><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.dw.com/en/reports-cologne-nye-assaulters-were-largely-asylum-seekers/a-18966406">Reports: Cologne NYE assaulters were largely asylum-seekers</a></blockquote>
 
I just saw the Amy Winehouse doco , I was more surprised about her dying at the end than I am about reading that. 
On the plus side, we could be experiencing an influx of cashed up Europeans wanting to move here to get away from the idiocy of Merkel etc .

Tim

We already have thousands of French moving to NZ every year. :-/
 
;)

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="551412" data-time="1452216073">
<div>
I smell a big fat German cover up
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Kim.com?

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="550922" data-time="1452039325">
<div>
so if a topic is locked, some people (mods?) can still post in it?
 
hypothetically speaking for example, in a global warming thread - someone could post an article from one point of view after it's locked so nobody would be able to rebut it?
 
now there's a conspiracy
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Stop your whining buttercups.

NTA

That article is pretty short on facts, beyond this:
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">According to the newspapers' reports, citing officers on duty on New Year's Eve, officials checked the IDs of at least 100 people present at Cologne's central station on December 31 after their behavior became conspicuous. Seventy-one people were identified, 11 people were remanded into custody and 32 criminal complaints were registered, according to the Welt am Sonntag (WamS) report.
"There were, quite to the contrary of what was said publicly, identity checks on numerous people," the WamS quoted an unnamed officer as saying. "Most of them were recently-arrived asylum-seekers."
The first internal police report on the event - a so-called "wichtige Ereignis Meldung" ("important event announcement") - spoke of a crowd mainly of "North African and Arab" origin. According to the KÃ¶lner Stadt-anzeiger, the officer leading the team at the station wanted the report to include mention of the Syrians and asylum seekers, but the senior officer writing the "WE-Meldung" decided not to, saying it would be "politically awkward."
It is still unclear whether the same persons were involved in the assaults.</blockquote>
 
 
Other than that, two unnamed officers reporting the same guys were in on the sexual assault stuff.
 
The chief of police should lose his job for putting out bullshit statements about peaceful conduct, but unless you've got this "thousand" men of "North African and Arab origin" all lined up and can prove they're asylum seekers, you're distilling the bits you want out of Chinese whispers.
 
At night on NYE I'll bet most men tend to look foreign - and what if they're second- or third-gen immigrants who happen to be a bit swarthy?
 
And, regardless of who the fuck they are and where they come from, its disgusting and they should get deported if they're asylum seekers, or serious jail time and fines if they're citizens.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="551454" data-time="1452236954">
That article is pretty short on facts, beyond this: 
Other than that, two unnamed officers reporting the same guys were in on the sexual assault stuff. 
The chief of police should lose his job for putting out bullshit statements about peaceful conduct, but unless you've got this "thousand" men of "North African and Arab origin" all lined up and can prove they're asylum seekers, you're distilling the bits you want out of Chinese whispers. 
At night on NYE I'll bet most men tend to look foreign - and what if they're second- or third-gen immigrants who happen to be a bit swarthy? 
And, regardless of who the fuck they are and where they come from, its disgusting and they should get deported if they're asylum seekers, or serious jail time and fines if they're citizens.</blockquote>
 
I ain't obsessed with camel rooters being rapey, I was saying this was going to happen months ago because of the way they see us and their belief that our laws are irrelevant as Sharia law is the one they follow. Sure enough they've behaved even more appallingly than I said they would in the thread that got locked . 
How did they think they were going to be able to stop word of what happened getting out in the internet age ? 
It looks like the poms are going to exit the eu if the latest polls are anything to go by, any of our British posters think that helping keep out these ferals is a factor?

Catogrande

Jegga - I'll go out on a limb here - I don't see anyway that we will exit the EU. There are simply too many problems to overcome and too many side stories to consider. The big one being what if there is a geographical split on the referendum and Scotland wants to stay in the EU? What price another referendum on Scottish independence? I could quite see our terms of membership being watered down with border controls and movement of people in general being high on the list, but beyond that I don't see much happening. There are also a load of vested interests - God knows how many Euro MPs we now have slurping along on the gravy train, plus so many others as special envoy to the EU covering egg production or cucumber sizing or whatever bollocks they can think up. These pretty much failed politicos (Neil Kinnock anyone) are paid at a level that their UK counterparts can only dream about.
 
It's a truism that eggs are a lot easier to scramble than to un-scramble.

jegga

Cheers Cato that was an interesting take , I was reading this <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.3news.co.nz/world/majority-of-brits-would-leave-eu---poll-2016010715'>https://www.3news.co.nz/world/majority-of-brits-would-leave-eu---poll-2016010715</a>

Catogrande

I'm always a bit sceptical about such polls to be honest. As in most elections there are the die hard fors and againsts and it is the middle ground that decide things. Experience shows me that on one off referendums there is a very high chance of there being no change because people don't like and fear change. Then there is the transient nature of many of the people who say they are for change, taking an overly emotive stance which many back down from, either because their particular fear has been assuaged or they are all wind and piss in the first place and are just blowing off steam.
 
One of the things I have to do in my work is to try and ascertain clients' appetite for investment risk on an ongoing basis. The first step in this is to get them to complete a short questionnaire to arrive at a score which is then the basis for further discussion. It may come as no surprise but almost any client will exhibit a seemingly greater appetite for risk if their recent experience has been good and vice-versa if their investments have disappointed. I feel that there is a significant element of this in the current polling - strip out the immigrant issue and I reckon the results would be quite different. So Cameron's task is to make the immigrant issue as irrelevant as possible for the UK and then it should be mission accomplished. If not I feel the vote will be close but still for remaining in the EU. Also, don't forget, the wording on the referendum voting slips has yet to be revealed, don't under-estimate the slipperiness of the politicians to frame it to suit their agendas. A simple in or out? I doubt it.

jegga

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11571501'>http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11571501</a> 
I'm quite surprised he got to do 19 universities before it made the news.

Rancid Schnitzel

I think Britain will stay in the EU. From the outside looking in it seems to be like a man contemplating leaving his wife. Yes she's become fat and bloated, nags too much and costs you shit loads of money. Yes she has stupid rules and doesn't give a damn what you think. But you've been together for so long that the thought of being without her is farking scary. A divorce will also be ridiculously complicated and involve all manner of legal bullshit. Add the fact that she still gives the very occasional blow job. What happens if I leave and never get another bj? Taking all that into account, maybe it's best to go with the safe option.

Rancid Schnitzel

The response to the Germany thing has been quite incredible. Women get molested so the solution is for them to dress conservatively, stay in groups, and keep an "arms length" distance from strange men. What next? Gay men should act less camp and not hold hands to avoid being bashed? 
What the hell is going on?

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="551564" data-time="1452324357">The response to the Germany thing has been quite incredible. Women get molested so the solution is for them to dress conservatively, stay in groups, and keep an "arms length" distance from strange men. What next? Gay men should act less camp and not hold hands to avoid being bashed? 
What the hell is going on?</blockquote>
 
The obvious solution is for women to dress from head to toe in a shapeless black outfit and never leave the house without a chaperone . 
Gays are really out of luck unfortunately , either a sex change like gays are forced to have in Iran or a one way trip to the quarry .

Donsteppa

I found this article from the Guardian to be.... something - I'm not quite sure what.<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve'> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve</a>
 
Dig into the first full page of the comments sections... ignore the "Guardian picks" comments - but note how relatively few likes the Guardian Picks have compared to the main responses on the first page or so. e.g
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Finally, after several days of refusing to report the biggest story of 2016 so far because it does not fit with its highly ideological driven narrative, this paper is allowing comments on a story which has shown its contempt for victims of sexual assault. It's predictable enough that the first writer to tackle this does not ask why the Mayor of Cologne and many on the left are blaming the victims themselves for their own rapes. The writer should at least acknowledge the only solution left available to citizens, when the police cannot protect them from clear danger and politicians blame victims for the crime simply because the perpetrator was a foreign male of arabic extraction, is to arm themselves. Please never print another article on women's rights ever again, you have no credibility on this issue and owe those on the opposite side of the political spectrum who have now been proved correct a massive apology. I write this as a guardian reader and buyer of 17 years and someone who has always voted for left of centre parties (both of which I won't be doing ever again).
</blockquote>
 
(1907 likes thus far).
 
You know the political bias when you go to the Guardian (or the Telegraph for that matter), but I've rarely seen a comments section so full and so out of sync with the general political/ideological thrust of a paper.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="551571" data-time="1452328128">I found this article from the Guardian to be.... something - I'm not quite sure what. 
 
Dig into the first full page of the comments sections... ignore the "Guardian picks" comments - but note how relatively few likes the Guardian Picks have compared to the main responses on the first page or so. 
 <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve">http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/08/cologne-attacks-hard-questions-new-years-eve</a> 
 
 
(1907 likes thus far). 
 
You know the political bias when you go to the Guardian (or the Telegraph for that matter), but I've rarely seen the comments so out of sync with the general political/ideological thrust of the paper.</blockquote>
 
Cheers for that, pretty astounding really . It reminds me of the election coverage in 2014 , the media were completely out of step with the mood of the country. Like I said on the blocked thread I blame the apologists almost as much as the ferals behaving like this. Bloody glad we didn't import a bunch if people who don't give a shit about our laws or way of life like the Germans did. 
My son showed me my fuckwit of a sisters Facebook page, there's a picture of the dead toddler on the beach and a petition calling on John Key to open our country to "Syrian refugees" . The media and leftards certainly got some mileage out of that shot , this what the leftard blogs were saying at the time. <a class="bbc_url" href="https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/nothing-will-come-of-nothing-2/">https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/nothing-will-come-of-nothing-2/</a> <a class="bbc_url" href="http://thestandard.org.nz/syrian-refugees-national-backs-down/">http://thestandard.org.nz/syrian-refugees-national-backs-down/</a>

Donsteppa

However... :)
 
You've linked a commentary on raising the refugee numbers on the Standard. I'm as wary of using the Cologne attacks to argue the NZ refugee quota number as I am of someone using the "open our country to Syrian refugees" line
 
On the whole, New Zealand has done a very good job with resettling refugees over a number of years. That's because of a very un-German like selection process:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_migration_into_New_Zealand'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_migration_into_New_Zealand</a>
 
"Since 1976 more than 40,000 refugees have settled and built a future in New Zealand."... I liked reading that as it put NZ's consistent effort over time into good context. Broadly speaking refugees get no more 'bad' publicity than any other group of the population here. I also played rugby with a very handy Cambodian first five and a nippy winger - both of whom were (by then) adult children of Cambodian refugees who had resettled in Hamilton :) 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
New Zealand is one of fewer than 20 countries to offer a resettlement programme and has done so for more than 20 years. Even fewer countries make a commitment like New Zealand to reserving a place for women at risk, medical/disabled, and emergency protection cases within their quota. In doing so they offer a preferential option for those who are already marginalised and vulnerable, and the most difficult to place. For this New Zealand has gained international respect for its <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarianism' title="Humanitarianism">humanitarianism</a>.
In addition to this quota New Zealand receives <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_seekers' title="Asylum seekers">asylum seekers</a>, whose claim is then either approved or declined by the Refugee Status Branch of the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_New_Zealand' title="Immigration New Zealand">Immigration New Zealand</a>, or by the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_Status_Appeals_Authority' title="Refugee Status Appeals Authority">Refugee Status Appeals Authority</a>. In 2005, 1,585 refugee status applications were received, but only 12.5% were found to be genuine.
</blockquote>
 
Regarding the bold, we're not an easy touch as sometimes assumed. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/general/generalinformation/refugee-protection/refugee-statistics.htm'>http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/general/generalinformation/refugee-protection/refugee-statistics.htm</a> has the latest official stats. It's easier to be declined than approved: <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/00CBC69E-AB63-4C2A-876C-6A1BE7AFA2E8/0/RSBRefugeeandProtectionStatPak.pdf'>http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/00CBC69E-AB63-4C2A-876C-6A1BE7AFA2E8/0/RSBRefugeeandProtectionStatPak.pdf</a>
 
There's also a (yes, biased - but interesting) Q&A at <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.caritas.org.nz/sites/default/files/Refugee Myths and Realities_0.pdf'>http://www.caritas.org.nz/sites/default/files/Refugee Myths and Realities_0.pdf</a> that makes some observations from an NZ perspective.
 
There are a number of good arguments for or against accepting refugees, or shifting the quota from 750 to 1000, 500, 1500, or 0, or staying the same. People might prefer the money to be spent elsewhere (or more money to be spent), philosophical objections (or are bleeding heart liberals), the economy is now bigger than in 1987 (or charity begins at home), etc...
 
Though "See that picture!! we must open the door let all the poor Syrians in", or "Fuck Off, look at Cologne FFS!!" are rough arguments in a New Zealand context. (Though Germany and Europe seem to be a whole other kettle of fish...)
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Jegga: Bloody glad we didn't import a bunch if people who don't give a shit about our laws or way of life like the Germans did.
</blockquote>
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-take-750-more-syrian-refugees'>http://beehive.govt.nz/release/new-zealand-take-750-more-syrian-refugees</a> - a good, pragmatic approach. Especially note the screening process (italics mine):
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
What is the process for the 600 additional places and how soon will the refugees arrive in New Zealand? 
The process for the 600 additional places will be the same as any intake under the current quota. 
The UNHCR carries out its own screening process and does not refer high risk or complex cases for resettlement.
In addition to this, all cases submitted for consideration undergo robust assessments as part of INZâ€™s decision-making process. That includes on and off-shore screening and assessment that focuses on credibility, risk and settlement to ensure that the person is not a security risk or character of concern to New Zealand, and that settlement in New Zealand is the right option for them. 
INZ also specifically carries out its own security checks alongside NZSIS, biometric checks and health assessments.
INZ will undertake an initial mission to Lebanon in October and another in December for the current year. The first 250 selected for resettlement will arrive in New Zealand in three groups â€“ anticipated to be January, March and May 2016.
</blockquote>
 
There's a huge amount of paid and unpaid effort that goes into refugee re-settlement in NZ. (For anyone in one of the NZ refugee resettlement cities who is interested - Red Cross are always looking for good volunteers: <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.redcross.org.nz/what-we-do/in-new-zealand/refugee-services/'>https://www.redcross.org.nz/what-we-do/in-new-zealand/refugee-services/</a> :))

jegga

I thought it was interesting to read the rants from the left of the spectrum when the refugee crisis was dominating the headlines. I'm not using Cologne as an excuse to stop us taking in refugees from the middle east , I never wanted them in the first place for reasons I've been banging on about winger style for months now. Unlike Winger though I've been proven right. 
Those were interesting stories about how we take our refugee quota . I've wondered why our bakeries seem to be run by Cambodians , I asked one day and apparently when they ended up here as boat people after fleeing the Khner Rouge baking was a trade a lot of them went into as the govt of the day helped them get qualified and into a job to help settle them here . If you check out the Bakels pie awards 8 or 9 of the top ten are usually Cambodian names.

Donsteppa

I re-read your post and deleted my reply as I'd missed an important qualifier... so as long as NZ finds refugees who will keep us in top quality mince and cheese you're happy? :)

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="551672" data-time="1452408088">
I re-read your post and deleted my reply as I'd missed an important qualifier... so as long as NZ finds refugees who will keep us in top quality mince and cheese you're happy? :)</blockquote>
 
Pretty much , there's enough kebab places near me so I'm sorted there for Mid East food.

jegga

Actually since I bought up the standard , there's no mention of Cologne or when you type the name into the search either. I was expecting that guardian article to be up there .

The Silver Fern

Hang on a sec