2020 All Blacks Squad
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@Bones said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Chester-Draws well shit, if Duane Vermuelen isn't a big bastard then I've obviously misidentified him. Kolisi is a good size unit too, he isn't small, especially for an openside.
When Vermeulen was playing for Toulon, he was listed at 120 kg. In the Worldrugby site, he has slimmed down to 108 kg ! I don't think this is a true reflection of his size. He must be well over 120 kg as he looks very very big. Tom Curry and Sam Underhill are both listed at 106 kg and their respective sizes cannot be compared to Vermeulen's who looks twice as large as them.
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@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
Yeah - having people like Nonu, Savea and SBW who win collisions was pretty handy in 2015.
I'd like to see some rapid development of Rayasi and Big Leicester, among others.
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@Chris-B said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
Yeah - having people like Nonu, Savea and SBW who win collisions was pretty handy in 2015.
It seems fanciful to think that after losing a bunch of generational players we would win the cup for a third time. Frustratingly we almost could have
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@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones more than half of those tries have come against Japan, Baabaas, Italy, French invitational.
I can think of an Argies test and one of the BIL tests that I thought he was okay. But his distribution game is limited and I think that’s where he’s been bypassed as a ball playing option during games and it’s been noticeable.
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
So ALB and Goodhue it is then. Consider 2019 shelved!
I really like Jack and ALB and, IMO, they could be the AB midfield pairing for the next 5 years. My issue with those guys is that they're a bit "samey" and they're both kinda 'tweeners. Neither is a massive big bruiser in the Nonu / De Allende / Mortlock mould (I think it's fair to say that, in the last 10 years our first-fives have looked at their absolute best when having a bruiser - generally Nonu or SBW - alongside them to hold the defence or bail them out if needed). But neither is exactly a really skilful or silky midfielder in, say, the Horan / C Smith / O'Driscoll mould.
My main concern with having them both, therefore, is that our midfield might lack a bit of balance. I think it's probably fair to say that both are at their best playing 13, while ALB is probably only a serviceable 12.
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@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones more than half of those tries have come against Japan, Baabaas, Italy, French invitational.
I can think of an Argies test and one of the BIL tests that I thought he was okay. But his distribution game is limited and I think that’s where he’s been bypassed as a ball playing option during games and it’s been noticeable.
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
So ALB and Goodhue it is then. Consider 2019 shelved!
I really like Jack and ALB and, IMO, they could be the AB midfield pairing for the next 5 years. My issue with those guys is that they're a bit "samey" and they're both kinda 'tweeners. Neither is a massive big bruiser in the Nonu / De Allende / Mortlock mould (I think it's fair to say that, in the last 10 years our first-fives have looked at their absolute best when having a bruiser - generally Nonu or SBW - alongside them to hold the defence or bail them out if needed). But neither is exactly a really skilful or silky midfielder in, say, the Horan / C Smith / O'Driscoll mould.
My main concern with having them both, therefore, is that our midfield might lack a bit of balance. I think it's probably fair to say that both are at their best playing 13, while ALB is probably only a serviceable 12.
Jack G is taller than ALB, and could be bulked up a bit, at the cost of speed.
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@pakman said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones more than half of those tries have come against Japan, Baabaas, Italy, French invitational.
I can think of an Argies test and one of the BIL tests that I thought he was okay. But his distribution game is limited and I think that’s where he’s been bypassed as a ball playing option during games and it’s been noticeable.
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
So ALB and Goodhue it is then. Consider 2019 shelved!
I really like Jack and ALB and, IMO, they could be the AB midfield pairing for the next 5 years. My issue with those guys is that they're a bit "samey" and they're both kinda 'tweeners. Neither is a massive big bruiser in the Nonu / De Allende / Mortlock mould (I think it's fair to say that, in the last 10 years our first-fives have looked at their absolute best when having a bruiser - generally Nonu or SBW - alongside them to hold the defence or bail them out if needed). But neither is exactly a really skilful or silky midfielder in, say, the Horan / C Smith / O'Driscoll mould.
My main concern with having them both, therefore, is that our midfield might lack a bit of balance. I think it's probably fair to say that both are at their best playing 13, while ALB is probably only a serviceable 12.
Jack G is taller than ALB, and could be bulked up a bit, at the cost of speed.
Surely he's big enough?
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@junior I think their skill strengths are quite different. Goodhue is a genuine centre that runs good lines and hits the line quite hard. ALB is more a stepper/footwork guy in attack but has a bruising defensive game and probably hits the tackle as hard as Tana did. Don’t think size is a problem when both are north of 6’1 and 95kg.
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@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior I think their skill strengths are quite different. Goodhue is a genuine centre that runs good lines and hits the line quite hard. ALB is more a stepper/footwork guy in attack but has a bruising defensive game and probably hits the tackle as hard as Tana did. Don’t think size is a problem when both are north of 6’1 and 95kg.
They have an opportunity to build a relationship that could be very good in 4 years time
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@antipodean said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@pakman said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones more than half of those tries have come against Japan, Baabaas, Italy, French invitational.
I can think of an Argies test and one of the BIL tests that I thought he was okay. But his distribution game is limited and I think that’s where he’s been bypassed as a ball playing option during games and it’s been noticeable.
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
So ALB and Goodhue it is then. Consider 2019 shelved!
I really like Jack and ALB and, IMO, they could be the AB midfield pairing for the next 5 years. My issue with those guys is that they're a bit "samey" and they're both kinda 'tweeners. Neither is a massive big bruiser in the Nonu / De Allende / Mortlock mould (I think it's fair to say that, in the last 10 years our first-fives have looked at their absolute best when having a bruiser - generally Nonu or SBW - alongside them to hold the defence or bail them out if needed). But neither is exactly a really skilful or silky midfielder in, say, the Horan / C Smith / O'Driscoll mould.
My main concern with having them both, therefore, is that our midfield might lack a bit of balance. I think it's probably fair to say that both are at their best playing 13, while ALB is probably only a serviceable 12.
Jack G is taller than ALB, and could be bulked up a bit, at the cost of speed.
Surely he's big enough?
Quite a decent sized unit. 6'2 I'd say.
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@canefan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior I think their skill strengths are quite different. Goodhue is a genuine centre that runs good lines and hits the line quite hard. ALB is more a stepper/footwork guy in attack but has a bruising defensive game and probably hits the tackle as hard as Tana did. Don’t think size is a problem when both are north of 6’1 and 95kg.
They have an opportunity to build a relationship that could be very good in 4 years time
@canefan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior I think their skill strengths are quite different. Goodhue is a genuine centre that runs good lines and hits the line quite hard. ALB is more a stepper/footwork guy in attack but has a bruising defensive game and probably hits the tackle as hard as Tana did. Don’t think size is a problem when both are north of 6’1 and 95kg.
They have an opportunity to build a relationship that could be very good in 4 years time
@canefan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@junior I think their skill strengths are quite different. Goodhue is a genuine centre that runs good lines and hits the line quite hard. ALB is more a stepper/footwork guy in attack but has a bruising defensive game and probably hits the tackle as hard as Tana did. Don’t think size is a problem when both are north of 6’1 and 95kg.
They have an opportunity to build a relationship that could be very good in 4 years time
Saw both of them last week. ALB is shorter and stockier.
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@cgrant said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Big does not mean good as far as midfielders are concerned. Speed and technical abilities are what counts most.
I've always liked one bigger to run crash ball as required matched with one leaner/faster. Osbourne/Robertson, Nonu/Conrad, etc..
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@pakman said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@cgrant said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Big does not mean good as far as midfielders are concerned. Speed and technical abilities are what counts most.
I've always liked one bigger to run crash ball as required matched with one leaner/faster. Osbourne/Robertson, Nonu/Conrad, etc..
Laumape is a smasher. He needs to expand his game, he has the potential. Nonu didn't develop until quite late, he took a long time to win many posters over
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@canefan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@pakman said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@cgrant said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Big does not mean good as far as midfielders are concerned. Speed and technical abilities are what counts most.
I've always liked one bigger to run crash ball as required matched with one leaner/faster. Osbourne/Robertson, Nonu/Conrad, etc..
Laumape is a smasher. He needs to expand his game, he has the potential. Nonu didn't develop until quite late, he took a long time to win many posters over
Well I saw him in a few games early in the NPC season and I've been impressed with his subtle skills, vision and support throughout the year. He throws a sweeeet skip pass a la Nonu and has a finely tuned short kicking game.
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@Bones said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@canefan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@pakman said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@cgrant said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Big does not mean good as far as midfielders are concerned. Speed and technical abilities are what counts most.
I've always liked one bigger to run crash ball as required matched with one leaner/faster. Osbourne/Robertson, Nonu/Conrad, etc..
Laumape is a smasher. He needs to expand his game, he has the potential. Nonu didn't develop until quite late, he took a long time to win many posters over
Well I saw him in a few games early in the NPC season and I've been impressed with his subtle skills, vision and support throughout the year. He throws a sweeeet skip pass a la Nonu and has a finely tuned short kicking game.
He’s been one of the form midfielders in Super rugby for a couple of years now. He needs a decent opportunity to stake his claim
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@canefan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@pakman said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@cgrant said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Big does not mean good as far as midfielders are concerned. Speed and technical abilities are what counts most.
I've always liked one bigger to run crash ball as required matched with one leaner/faster. Osbourne/Robertson, Nonu/Conrad, etc..
Laumape is a smasher. He needs to expand his game, he has the potential. Nonu didn't develop until quite late, he took a long time to win many posters over
I posted in support around the time Dan was moving full time to first five.
Tried to recover it but seems lost in the sands of time!
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looking at our best mid-fielders over the past 10-20 years, they tend to hit thier straps around 27/28ish...which bodes well for the likes of Laumape, ALB & Goodhue, probably Rieko and Jordie too.
While our wings seem to fall off a cliff at that age, our centres mature.
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ALB reminds me of Walter Little as much as anyone.
On size - you have people like Tuilagi listed at 114 kgs vs someone like ALB listed at 96 kgs - so giving away nearly 20 kgs. And most forwards north of 110kgs - plenty more than 120 kgs.
It's tough to win the collision when you're giving away that much size.
Jack's a bit bigger at 100kgs, but I wouldn't mind seeing him a bit heavier still. Nonu and SBW listed at 108kgs seem ideal for the "broadsword" in midfield.
What starts to become problematic is when you have three little guys in the backs - Smith, Mo'unga and Reece - and the rest of the backline are only moderately sized - Beauden, Bridge and the two midfielders.
You're starting to lose a lot of collisions! If you're n the back foot, who do you give it to to smash forward and get some front foot ball?
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@Chris-B agree to a point, but there were concerns with our small backs v SA in pool play, but it didnt affect us.
I expect Jack could put on a few more kgs easily enough without affecting him.
there arent too many big bruisers playing the mid-field in NZ presently who look like they will make the step up in the next year or 2...
