Hansen
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I think that the problem of Hansen’s coaching since 2015 - coinciding with Read’s captaincy - is that at the two biggest points in this cycle, that is the Lions and WC (so not even counting the embarrassing first loss to the Irish which Read captained) we just didn’t produce. So, overall, the winning percentage is great and we look amazing. However equally, my NH friends argue (with some reason) that these are the only two times we ever play the NH when they have purpose to be truly at their best - the 6N is generally their yearly focus. So, in some ways, it’s a misleading percentage because we are 0/2 at the highest level during the last four years.
I have a different view of the Lions. They were lucky to draw that series - you can't say the coaching cost us there. SBW has a brain fart (and we still damn near win that test), and then a horror refereeing call at the end to cost us the chance of a win. That, and we got ripped apart by injury - we had nearly peak Ben Smith out in the first 20 minutes, debutantes in Laumape, ALB (or close to it I think), and maybe Jordie? Then Naholo out with broken jaw from swinging arm (no consequences for SOB), and the Lions really didn't lose anyone. For me, we win that series almost every time, and I reckon we were up for it properly.
Denigrating Ireland is tough on the team too; they were No 1 in the world going into the tournament, and while Japan beat them, they still brought it at times against us. We just snuffed out what they did do.
So, I'm taking a different view - it was a flat performance, England played out of their skins, and the bounce of the ball just didn't go our way. That happens in top sport sometimes.
You’re right about all those unfortunate circumstances, which occurred during the Lions series. However, despite all that, we had the opportunity to win it but failed to do so, indeed playing with the same lack of smarts and composure that we saw 2 years later in this SF loss against England. This for me is the most disappointing thing about how the last 4 years have gone - we seem to have lost that strategic advantage in the top two inches we’d developed since 2007.
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I think the one contingency maybe no-one banked on, and someone mentioned it here humourously earlier in the game thread, was Ireland coming runner up in their pool. We should have played Scotland or Japan in the Quarter and maybe Wales in the Semi.
England won their group comfortably, so were always going to play Australia or Wales in the QF. Wales won their group.
Based on their performances England would still have been in the SF against NZ.
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I think this one sums up the salient points
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@Machpants
Good article except the part saying Squire was a the hardman at 6 and we really missed him.
Flat track bully - imo -
@Frank there is a (misconceived) impression in our media Squire is a hardman, not sure where it came from
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@taniwharugby probably a good traditional six though. But I have no problem with our loose trio. When it was the proper 3 starters
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@Machpants said in Hansen:
I think this one sums up the salient points
I agree with almost all of the article. ABs could and maybe should have won both Irish games.
One game which for me encapsulated the change in mindset was Springboks last year in Wellington. We had them entirely and comprehensively under control, them a couple of ludicrous mistakes and then we were under pressure. At that point the fragility was evident. A game we ought never to have lost.
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@Machpants said in Hansen:
@taniwharugby probably a good traditional six though. But I have no problem with our loose trio. When it was the proper 3 starters
Squire was up and down, but he has a mean streak which seems a prerequisite for hard shouldered loosies.
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@Machpants said in Hansen:
@taniwharugby probably a good traditional six though. But I have no problem with our loose trio. When it was the proper 3 starters
Squire was up and down, but he has a mean streak which seems a prerequisite for hard shouldered loosies.
Although I thought he was a bit of a bully (he’d be great against Oz for example) and posted that here, someone pointed me to a game against SA where he was very good. That’s the standard, so he was probably just inconsistently strong and forceful. Had it, but never showed it enough.
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@Nevorian remember, Hansen lost about 10 games in 8 years, including 2 RWC.
That's frankly ridiculous in professional sport. Dead set honest to god first ballot hall of fame coach right there.
Yep he deserves to be viewed in the same catagory as Vic Cavenaugh , Fred Allen, Brian Lochore and Graham Henry belongs there too. I think we get a bit complacent about the abs results and where they fit in the context of sports.
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@Machpants said in Hansen:
I think this one sums up the salient points
When you look at those players , you get a feeling of trust that you dont quite get from the current side , they may end up getting there ,
You can add Kaino , Owen franks, Ben Smith to that group in that photo , and we lost ( team that took the field ) an irreplaceable amount of experience in 4 years
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Hansen:
All said and done the loss of Ritchie/Jerome/Dan and Ma'a was always going to be huge
There really does seem to a bit of an air-brushing out of Conrad Smith on the Fern these days.
He was one of the very best 13's NZ have ever had.
Really? I always thought Snake was very highly regarded here? He's in the best AB centre ever conversation, and he and Ma'a are the best AB midfield ever bar none. Our senior player group was gutted after 2015, and Hansen almost pulled off a RWC win with a transitional team
