Why this feels different...
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@gt12 I think I heard Gatland mention the very first battle they try to win is the one for half way, he said it was more important they controlled half way and spent more time in the opposition half than scoring freakish tries. Once you are in the right places you can build pressure that leads to penalties and opportunities.
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I'm sure that the ABs got seduced into going wide after watching Aust having some success there a week earlier. The problem is that you need to earn that right first and the forwards failed to provide any platform to launch off, like they did against Ireland. Read's poor captaincy was evident as they didn't try to change tactics that clearly weren't working.
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@gt12 Spot on analysis and comment GT, we did not seem to have a back up plan to the high risk rugby style that Eddie new we were going to play.
I know there has been a lot of comment on the Barrett Cane selection and I just wonder if Cane was maybe not fully fit and the selectors knew he probably at best only had 40 mins of rugby in him which was better to use at the back end rather than the start
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I think what makes it a slightly easier pill to swallow is that in my opinion, that was up there as one of the best performances England has produced.
The pace, accuracy, agression, if it wasnt against us was something to behold.
We were simply not given any room or time to get into the game, they grabbed us by the balls in minute 1 and never needed to let go to regrip.
The onslaught we faced was something we might weather in the opening stanza v SA, but there was no let up, no weather the storm regroup and win, we barely got out of neutral.
I said 2 weeks ago when people were worrying about Ireland, I said I was worried about England.
That we were beaten by a performance like that, and 2011/2015 makes it easier to deal with.
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@taniwharugby said in Why this feels different...:
The onslaught we faced was something we might weather in the opening stanza v SA, but there was no let up, no weather the storm regroup and win, we barely got out of neutral.
It's funny, seemed one of those games where the bounce of the ball just didn't go our way. they dropped a bit of ball, and opened the door to us - we just didn't go through. Seemed to spend the night kicking it back to them, being bundled into touch, or conceding turnovers at the breakdown.
In the end, we thought they'd be good enough to get 20-odd points. Just keeping us to 7 is the issue; we just weren't good enough to score. After last week, it's particularly disappointing, we had the capability, just didn't execute at all (or tkae good options)
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@sparky Ioane BROTHERS?? Akira is such a waste of talent it's criminal.
He needs a huge super season to be even sniffing an AB Jersey next year.
Yes the forward pack will not be one we look back at and go wow they are up there among the great packs we have fielded. Some great indivduals, and some that may go on to become AB greats, but not yet.
Just not enough raw horsepower in tjis front row. Sometimes the broadsword beats the rapier. I think Franks was missed. Didnt see anything more from Laulala than Frank's used to produce.
We were just straight out outplayed from minute 1 to 81.
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@Number-10 yeah we had 2 calls go to us, we could have really got a hiding, the worst game the ABs have collectively played in my memory I reckon. (1981 Bokke series).
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@BartMan said in Why this feels different...:
@sparky Ioane BROTHERS?? Akira is such a waste of talent it's criminal.
He didn't front in NPC this year. Could be a great if he gets his head right, but the chances of that are diminishing day by day. It's really sad.
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@taniwharugby said in Why this feels different...:
I said 2 weeks ago when people were worrying about Ireland, I said I was worried about England.
I don't think it was that we weren't worried about England, but the fact that the ABs had to beat Ireland first before they would play England. QF loses don't go down well...
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@gt12 said in Why this feels different...:
It was horrible walking past all those fucking crowing English fluffybunnies to leave the stadium.
THIS!
I sat down outside the stadium for about half an hour to get my shit together (unsuccessfully), and you could still hear bouts of that hateful “swing low” coming from inside.
Absolute fluffybunnies.
But with good reason to celebrate... their team was bloody good. The filthy bastard fluffybunnies. -
What doesn’t feel different are the “reasons” for the loss being made on this forum.
Rewind 12 years ago and you could replay many of the same tag lines being put out last night and today with those following the France loss.
Forward pass aside, our tactics in the 2nd half in 07 were baffling and frustrating. Heard that today.
We missed experience - tick.
Leadership went missing and not just from the captain - tick.
Arrogance from coaches - I recall many saying Henry was so focused on the 2 AB XVs in 2006 that we never settled on one.
Strange selections leading in - Nonu and Weepu missing, Toeava in.
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@Kruse said in Why this feels different...:
@gt12 said in Why this feels different...:
It was horrible walking past all those fucking crowing English fluffybunnies to leave the stadium.
THIS!
I sat down outside the stadium for about half an hour to get my shit together (unsuccessfully), and you could still hear bouts of that hateful “swing low” coming from inside.
Absolute fluffybunnies.
But with good reason to celebrate... their team was bloody good. The filthy bastard fluffybunnies.I must say, all of the pommie fans I talked to, in the stadium and outside back in Tokyo were very nice. In turn we were very gracious. The guys sitting in front us were almost apologetic and couldn't believe they won. Well played
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@ACT-Crusader said in Why this feels different...:
Rewind 12 years ago and you could replay many of the same tag lines being put out last night and today with those following the France loss.
Disagree. In 07 we got shafted by a perfect storm of poor game from us, dodgy refereeing and an 'up for it' French side.
This time around, we went 'ok' - didn't really shit the bed, just got thoroughly out played. THat, and in 07 we hadn't come off back to back wins, and put out a statement performance in a knockout game the week before.
I'd argue that this game was South Africa in the Semi in 2015. We just weren't as good, and not able to handle it. I re-watched that game again in the buildup to this tourney, and we got beaten up all over the park all night ... but did enough to come away. Critical drop goal from Carter, and a bunch of really good contributions (including SBW). This lot just aren't as good in tight games, and I don't think there's much shame in that
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I watched the thing at my partner's place, who - before the game - asked me how I would be like if they lose, and I told her I'd be gloomy all day and probably for the next couple of days. Then when it all happened I somehow felt almost fine with it. I didn't watch rugby in 2007, so never had to see the France game, but the Lions series in 2017 felt horrible and somehow much, much worse for me. Yesterday was a well deserved loss, England played incredibly well, the ABs didn't, Owens didn't make any game deciding howlers (wasn't perfect, but who is?), and it was a simple case of the better team won. The Lions loss and then draw was much harder to swallow for me, I didn't feel they were deserved, especially considering SBW's stupid RC, Faumuina's "tackling in the air", and all that.
I don't know, I can just say I really don't like England, but have somehow no real problem with them being in the final. I really hope either South Africa (likable team, great national anthem) or Wales (new WC winner!) do it, though. Owen Farrell is still a dick, especially how he milked Whitelock's shove (Sam, you IDIOT!).
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@nzzp England were “up for it” as well. We got dominated off the ball. Similar to 2007 when I saw French players desperately diving on the ball squirting out of rucks.
Owens clearly missed some English indiscretions when we were attacking. Same as Barnes in 07.
That second 40 against France was hard to watch as was last night.
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@gt12 awesome post.
The worst part for me is we did have the game and tactics to be successful, we even saw them in this game. However, inexplicably whenever something worked successfully, it was very quickly put back in the box. That series of pick and go's in the second half that took us close to the tryline being a prime example (and eerily reminiscent of lions series). Once we got close, they oddly decided to just start throwing it wide to where the England defence was....and when that failed we never saw pick and go's again. Wtf?
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@Bones said in Why this feels different...:
@gt12 awesome post.
The worst part for me is we did have the game and tactics to be successful, we even saw them in this game. However, inexplicably whenever something worked successfully, it was very quickly put back in the box. That series of pick and go's in the second half that took us close to the tryline being a prime example (and eerily reminiscent of lions series). Once we got close, they oddly decided to just start throwing it wide to where the England defence was....and when that failed we never saw pick and go's again. Wtf?
We also used the tactic to good effect in the QF. I dont believe the poms are that superior physically, I think we had enough skill and power to win, but we just played into their hands with poor selection and gameplan
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