RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool B)
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@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Tordah said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@MiketheSnow said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Some of these posts should be in the 'Favourite Comedians' thread.
Both YC were a combination of dumb play and swinging arms.
If the ball carriers hadn't been dropping they both would have seen red.
No, they would have been perfectly normal tackles then, seen dozens of times in any game
Swinging arm is swinging arm regardless of where it hits. See penalty against Tonga in Tonga v France match.
It hit the head, so YC.
If the ball carrier hadn't been dropping and the defender had hit the ball carrier in the head it would have been red.
I know you're invested in these two incidents but it isn't that hard to grasp.
Rubbish. You have to swing the arms to wrap in the tackle, you nonce! If an attacker is running at normal body height, and the defender wraps his arms after hitting the attacker in the midriff, the attacker gets a tickle on the bum for his worries. The danger comes when the arm hits head - which brings me back to the point about how the hell you wrap the arms while avoiding the head when an attacker is diving head first at your knees? Great him around the waist and suplex him?!
You answered your own statement.
The letter 's'.
Big difference between a swinging arm and swinging arms as you describe it - or wrapping both arms simultaneously around the ball carrier as most would describe it.
Are you serious? The only difference is that there's two arms swinging instead of one.
If you're happy with that - which you seem to be - then presumably the only issue in both Nepo's and Ofa's cases was that they only got one arm around the neck instead of both...? I'm sorry, Mike, but that's just fucking bonkers, mate!
Deadly.
I was taught to tackle with my shoulder. The arms were used to wrap around the body to stop further movement of the ball carrier.
If you can't see a problem with the first point of contact in a 'tackle' being the defender's outstretched arm (singular) swinging into the ball carrier's head then that would explain our difference of opinion on the matter.
PS You're going to have be very skilled to swing both arms to the head simultaneously
Mate, so was every single rugby player before 2017. Now, you're looking at a card if you lead with the shoulder and don't have your arms up and in line with the body.
I obviously do have a problem with a swinging arm to the head. But, as I've said repeatedly in my posts above (which you've somewhat obtusely chosen to ignore, instead moving the debate onto swinging arms generally), it becomes difficult not to have a swinging arm to the head when (a) the defending player has lowered his body height to ensure low contact in line with current directives, and (b) has his arms outstretched in anticipation of wrapping the tackled player in line with current directives, but (c) fractionally before impact, the attacking player dives down at knee-level, below the body height of the defending player, and thus (d) ensures that any contact - with either shoulder or arms - will inevitably be "high".
Didn't think I had to clarify the first bit but
...tackle with my shoulder with both arms ahead of my shoulder and head in a pincer position ready to wrap around the ball carrier to stop further movement
And I didn't obtusely choose to ignore what you'd written.
World Rugby has directed the refs to penalise any tackle where the tackler makes contact with the ball carrier's neck or head.
There are mitigating factors which increase or decrease the severity of penalty.
When the ball carrier suddenly drops their body position prior to being tackled it's very difficult - to almost impossible - for the tackler to readjust their position.
**If you set up for a tackle and your point of impact is aimed at the shins of the ball carrier then you have a massive margin of error if the ball carrier readjusts their body position fractionally before contact.
If you set up and your point of impact is aimed at the nipple then you have a very small margin of error if the ball carrier readjusts their body position fractionally before contact.**
It's perceived as unfair at the moment - especially if one of your team is the transgressor - but ultimately it's a technique and timing issue.
There are hundreds of tackles during a match and thankfully we're talking about 1-3 incidents per match.
These are the key parts and, to a large degree, I agree with you. But, today we saw two instances where the tacklers lowered themselves to the position to tackle attacking players running at normal height around the hips. Unfortunately, the attacking players suddenly dropped and - despite doing absolutely everything right in the lead-up - two defending players got yellow cards.
In the circumstances, my view is that those incidences were a penalty at worst. No one was hurt and - if anything - the ball carriers' approaches to contact is what made the situation dangerous.
Fair enough.
The referee saw two swinging arms.
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There is certainly a lottery aspect to the cards in the World Cup and certainly puts the ABs at a disadvantage because every other team has an incentive to play closer to the edge against the number one team and it also makes it makes for the ABs tactic of absorbing pressure for phases ever more dangerous. In the long run ABs can benefit from tackling having to take place lower and the offload game will be crucial. In the short-term the reffing will decide a lot but I have already noticed more tackles around the legs with players attacking the ball after the tackle.
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@DMX said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:There is certainly a lottery aspect to the cards in the World Cup and certainly puts the ABs at a disadvantage because every other team has an incentive to play closer to the edge against the number one team and it also makes it makes for the ABs tactic of absorbing pressure for phases ever more dangerous. In the long run ABs can benefit from tackling having to take place lower and the offload game will be crucial. In the short-term the reffing will decide a lot but I have already noticed more tackles around the legs with players attacking the ball after the tackle.
Coaches and players are kidding themselves if they are spending anytime trying to harness the new guidelines as a strategy. Obviously they need to be adjusting their tackling techniques accordingly (or learning one in the case of Farrell) but this is about one step removed from using the dark arts to try and engineer scrum penalties - even if you can theoretically do it there is every chance they will go the other way anyway.
I hope the ABs are spending more time focusing on unforced yellow/red cards while under pressure. Of their last five RWC knockout games they've conceded three totally avoidable cards and then two from three in the Lions series.
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My point is a red card is far more damaging to the All Blacks that any other team because they always walk in as favorites in 15 aside game. I think if you are the opposition you can play right up to the edge and take your chances, for the All Blacks you have to be more conservative and do as much as possible to avoid red cards. It puts ABs at tactical disadvantage until everyone starts tackling much lower then advantage back to ABs.
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That first half was not good for the soul! Especially the first minute or two when Brodie made three tackles in a row and ended up landing on his shoulder. I was watching through my fingers.
And then they say "Retallick has gone off" I thought he was done as I didn't realise he was only getting 30 mins.
The second half happened and I was able to put that all behind.
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@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@jegga said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Anyone else need a quiet day at work tomorrow? I may have made too sure I stayed hydrated watching that .
Holiday here in Qld
GFYs
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All of TSF 'overreacting' in the first half...
Ta'avao confirmed Hansen didn't hold back in his halftime chat with some strong messages.
"One hundred percent and he had every right to be," Ta'avao said. "And the boys probably, although we were aware of that, we needed it. It sort of showed; the boys came out firing in the second half.
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@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:More to the point, has Twitter melted down over any photoshopped stills of our blatant cheating as yet?
It's coming, every ruck and tackle has to be analyzed so a hint of wrong doing can be found, then complain that the AB's get away with everything and how unfair life is.
Anyway.... thought Jordie went well at 10, better than I thought. ALB superb as we are used to now.
Would have loved to be a fly on the wall for the halftime chat. -
@Darren said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:Would have loved to be a fly on the wall for the halftime chat.
Not if Shag was throwing stuff at the wall said fly was occupying.
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"Taylor said that while the All Blacks don't do specific training drills on how to defend against someone who dives low before contact, they do try to tackle under the ball. "
You'd fucking hope they start looking at it now! Potentially game losing event
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@Rembrandt said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Machpants maybe he meant Goodhue outshone by his mid-field partner?
It's 'stuff.co.nz' so remember it's bizarro world. Either the Namibian centre did awesome or ALB.
To be fair, after looking like he had concrete boots early on, I thought Goodhue was pretty decent in the second half. High work rate, involved in a lot of linking plays. He's on the right trajectory.
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@Marty yeah when you look at his runs/metres, tackles, off loads, he got through some work, more than I thought he had done on first viewing.
Will be interesting to see where the coaches go with the mid-field, as you get the feeling they have been wanting the SBW-Goodhue one, but the Crotty-ALB one put out the best performance of the year so far, while the ALB-Goodhue one is the one they would dearly love to work as this will be our combo next year...and then the SBW-Crotty one has numbers on the board.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v Namibia (Pool
:@Marty yeah when you look at his runs/metres, tackles, off loads, he got through some work, more than I thought he had done on first viewing.
Will be interesting to see where the coaches go with the mid-field, as you get the feeling they have been wanting the SBW-Goodhue one, but the Crotty-ALB one put out the best performance of the year so far, while the ALB-Goodhue one is the one they would dearly love to work as this will be our combo next year...and then the SBW-Crotty one has numbers on the board.
On that analysis I reckon they will go for SBW/ALB
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