The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission
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Just a thought, but if both Mo'unga and Barrett were injured the game before a QF, but both were deemed to be likely to be fit for a semi final if we qualified, what would stop the selectors from replacing an outside back for Josh Ioane, so he could play 10 in the QF but the other two would still be eligible for games after that?
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@Cantab79 said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Just a thought, but if both Mo'unga and Barrett were injured the game before a QF, but both were deemed to be likely to be fit for a semi final if we qualified, what would stop the selectors from replacing an outside back for Josh Ioane, so he could play 10 in the QF but the other two would still be eligible for games after that?
Was trying to find the tournament rules, but bloody world rugby don't make it easy. However, I did stumble across this on team naming, whcih seems to be ignored
https://www.world.rugby/handbook/regulations/reg-9/reg-9?lang=en
9.16 Prior to an International Match, the following shall apply:
(a) Unions shall reduce their Squad size to 26 no later than 96 hours prior to the kick off of an International Match;
(b) 72 hours before the kick off of an International Match Unions shall announce and exchange a list of the 15 Players who will start the Match and up to 8 replacements/substitutes.
72 hours = 3 days. For a saturday night kickoff, isn't that Wednesday night (rather than the Thursday something we get). Also, what the hell does Cheika do with his bracketed players if you're limited to 23?
The Great Team Naming Timing Controversy Of The Fern Rolls On...
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@Cantab79 said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Just a thought, but if both Mo'unga and Barrett were injured the game before a QF, but both were deemed to be likely to be fit for a semi final if we qualified, what would stop the selectors from replacing an outside back for Josh Ioane, so he could play 10 in the QF but the other two would still be eligible for games after that?
I would have thought you can only replace due to injury
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@canefan said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@Cantab79 said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Just a thought, but if both Mo'unga and Barrett were injured the game before a QF, but both were deemed to be likely to be fit for a semi final if we qualified, what would stop the selectors from replacing an outside back for Josh Ioane, so he could play 10 in the QF but the other two would still be eligible for games after that?
I would have thought you can only replace due to injury
Prove the injury. Or otherwise.
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@nzzp said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@Cantab79 said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Just a thought, but if both Mo'unga and Barrett were injured the game before a QF, but both were deemed to be likely to be fit for a semi final if we qualified, what would stop the selectors from replacing an outside back for Josh Ioane, so he could play 10 in the QF but the other two would still be eligible for games after that?
Was trying to find the tournament rules, but bloody world rugby don't make it easy. However, I did stumble across this on team naming, whcih seems to be ignored
https://www.world.rugby/handbook/regulations/reg-9/reg-9?lang=en
9.16 Prior to an International Match, the following shall apply:
(a) Unions shall reduce their Squad size to 26 no later than 96 hours prior to the kick off of an International Match;
(b) 72 hours before the kick off of an International Match Unions shall announce and exchange a list of the 15 Players who will start the Match and up to 8 replacements/substitutes.
72 hours = 3 days. For a saturday night kickoff, isn't that Wednesday night (rather than the Thursday something we get). Also, what the hell does Cheika do with his bracketed players if you're limited to 23?
The Great Team Naming Timing Controversy Of The Fern Rolls On...
I suspect that webpage just had it's first ever hit.
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Not that hard to pick up an injury or employ a dodgy Japanese chef and come down with a debilitating illness
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@ACT-Crusader said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Not that hard to pick up an injury or employ a dodgy Japanese chef and come down with a debilitating illness
Just ask Crotty and SBW to walk down a small flight of stairs, 100% chance you’ll need to replace one afterwards. Only worry is it’s likely an 85% chance you’ll need to replace two.
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@canefan said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@Cantab79 said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Just a thought, but if both Mo'unga and Barrett were injured the game before a QF, but both were deemed to be likely to be fit for a semi final if we qualified, what would stop the selectors from replacing an outside back for Josh Ioane, so he could play 10 in the QF but the other two would still be eligible for games after that?
I would have thought you can only replace due to injury
Injuries don't need to be independently verified though. Moreover, what's stopping a player saying they are having mental health issues or family problems so they can be replaced? As far as I can see the AB's could bring in Josh Ioane in an emergency without necessarily having to replace Mo'unga or BB.
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@Cantab79 said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@canefan said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@Cantab79 said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Just a thought, but if both Mo'unga and Barrett were injured the game before a QF, but both were deemed to be likely to be fit for a semi final if we qualified, what would stop the selectors from replacing an outside back for Josh Ioane, so he could play 10 in the QF but the other two would still be eligible for games after that?
I would have thought you can only replace due to injury
Injuries don't need to be independently verified though. Moreover, what's stopping a player saying they are having mental health issues or family problems so they can be replaced? As far as I can see the AB's could bring in Josh Ioane in an emergency without necessarily having to replace Mo'unga or BB.
Agreed. That's why finding those tournament regulations woudl be nice. @Damo can you help?
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Other than hooker and prop you can bring in a replacement player of any position you want.
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Here's a summary of the rules as explained in 2015
Calling up injury replacements
Once teams have named their final 31 man squad players can only be replaced for medical or compassionate reasons. Teams must complete the relevant paperwork and send it to World Rugby along with a medical certificate where appropriate. Once signed off the replacement is not allowed to play for 48 hours. The replacement is permanent.How many hookers and props does one team need?
Each team must name a 23 man match day squad. World Rugby Law 3.5 requires each team to name a minimum of six players who are “suitably trained and experienced” to play in the front row. The necessary number of reserve front row players must be included in the 31 man squad to cover last minute injuries to the front row players in the match day squad due to the 48 hour limit on injury replacements from outside the tournament squad.* -
@ACT-Crusader said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Other than hooker and prop you can bring in a replacement player of any position you want.
There was discussion about this last time if you remember. Wales went to the tournament with only 2 hookers meaning that injury to either would have to be decided on in time to get a replacement for the game or potentially forfeit the points.
If either had picked up a card and match ban then another player would have to find an injury and get it cleared then be replaced by a front rower -
Faking an injury to get Ioane called up would be going down the Warner/Smith route.
The UK media would have an absolute field day.
Not going to happen.
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@Crucial said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Once teams have named their final 31 man squad players can only be replaced for medical or compassionate reasons.
The player would be really sad if their team lost the RWC cos of no fit 10s, that's a compassionate reason for Jordie or Reece to go home for Ioane
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@nzzp said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@Cantab79 said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@canefan said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@Cantab79 said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
Just a thought, but if both Mo'unga and Barrett were injured the game before a QF, but both were deemed to be likely to be fit for a semi final if we qualified, what would stop the selectors from replacing an outside back for Josh Ioane, so he could play 10 in the QF but the other two would still be eligible for games after that?
I would have thought you can only replace due to injury
Injuries don't need to be independently verified though. Moreover, what's stopping a player saying they are having mental health issues or family problems so they can be replaced? As far as I can see the AB's could bring in Josh Ioane in an emergency without necessarily having to replace Mo'unga or BB.
Agreed. That's why finding those tournament regulations woudl be nice. @Damo can you help?
Not really. I can't find the official regs anywhere. Even the World Rugby page with the Tournament Rules doesn't have the rules. https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/tournament-rules
For what it is worth; in 2015 (and I seem to recall earlier as well) the rule was that you had to wait 48 hours between losing a player and the replacement being able to play. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/strict-48-hour-rule-warren-9968431 (Apologies for the link, but that was what I found)
I would be amazed if there wasn't independent verification of injuries, I imagine personal/family issues would be on a case by case basis.
There is such a thing as a gentleman's code still in rugby I think. I'd be surprised if many coaches would ask a player to pretend to be injured to support a strategic switch. There are some unscrupulous people, but not as many as you'd think - surely (?)
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If you squint your eyes a bit, the thread looks to be titled "The mystery of Jonah Lowe's exclusion" and a fascinating foray into @Stargazer finally losing his mind 😁
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@Damo said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
There is such a thing as a gentleman's code still in rugby I think. I'd be surprised if many coaches would ask a player to pretend to be injured to support a strategic switch.
Yeah. Does happen though. Tom Williams blood gate springs to mind (albeit a club game). Wouldn't really have thought ball tampering would go on in cricket either due to a gentleman's code. "It's just not cricket" is a saying for a reason, but it happens.
Big pressure can make people do odd things.
