CWC Final - Black Caps v England
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@KiwiPie Fair enough. I suppose I always judge players on how they perform in crunch matches.
As an aside, was really surprised that Australia were so poor in the semis. Of all the teams, you would expect them to be at their best in the big games. We did an Aussie in this WC, we peaked when it mattered and only a whole lot of bad luck cost us the title.
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4 seamers and no spinners in the tournament XI.
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@ACT-Crusader Root could send a few pies down
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@rotated said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@mariner4life said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
well, shit aye.
I'm actually not sure how to feel. We can't even fall back on being beaten by a better side on the day. Because we weren't beaten.
Get my rant in. What fuckwit came up with most boundaries as the 2nd tie-breaker? Effectively England have been handed the cup for having less scoring shots than us? In what way is that a good measurement? Get absolutely fucked. I am not having that. Celebrate you pommy (UN) fucks, we all know it feels hollow.
Two bad pieces of luck in the last couple of overs. But that overthrow 6 is about as unlucky as you can possibly get. Right there you know it is not your day. Fucking hell.
I thought we were 30 runs short, turns out we were one. Imagine if we didn't duck under the last ball of the innings?
This is about where I'm at with it too. Although in a way I feel bad for both sides as England will always have a bit of asterix on the title and the lack of closure will likely torment NZ more than a loss. I'm not entirely sure I would be that much happier if NZ had "won" on an equally ridiculous countback.
The NZ team can be very proud, they played great cricket and did not wilt under the pressure and in the last two games added more to the lore of NZ cricket history than other teams did in an entire four year cycle. I juts hope for the Black Caps that in time the absurdity and incredible nature of the result or lack thereof a little easier to swallow.
On the bright side I look forward to Kane on commentary at the 2039 CWC semi final talking about this game at length...
You're having a little tug on your own whizzer there if you seriously believe the Poms will give a second thought to the way they were awarded this WC. They won't give a flying fuck. It's in the record books, that's all that matters. And we'd feel exactly the same. At most they'll feel mildly sympathetic towards us but they'll feel completely justified in having taken this title, one way or another.
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@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
4 seamers and no spinners in the tournament XI.
Shakib?
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@shark said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
4 seamers and no spinners in the tournament XI.
Shakib?
Has to be in. Outstanding stats and they punched above their weight
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@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
4 seamers and no spinners in the tournament XI.
That stat alone is probably the most pertinent when judging if NZ have missed their only ever chance at a world cup, rather than what age Sodhi and Blundell will be in 2023.
Btw, where will the tournament be hosted in 2023, I assume India?
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@Rapido said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
4 seamers and no spinners in the tournament XI.
That stat alone is probably the most pertinent when judging if NZ have missed their only ever chance at a world cup, rather than what age Sodhi and Blundell will be in 2023.
Btw, where will the tournament be hosted in 2023, I assume India?
Yes, India.
I don't get the last chance to win a world cup. We have a great team to build from
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@Hooroo said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
4 seamers and no spinners in the tournament XI.
That stat alone is probably the most pertinent when judging if NZ have missed their only ever chance at a world cup, rather than what age Sodhi and Blundell will be in 2023.
Btw, where will the tournament be hosted in 2023, I assume India?
I don't get the last chance to win a world cup. We have a great team to build from
I dunno. In 1987, my first and immediate thought was "phew, not sure the rugby team will pull this off again."*
*might not be true
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@Hooroo said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
4 seamers and no spinners in the tournament XI.
That stat alone is probably the most pertinent when judging if NZ have missed their only ever chance at a world cup, rather than what age Sodhi and Blundell will be in 2023.
Btw, where will the tournament be hosted in 2023, I assume India?
Yes, India.
I don't get the last chance to win a world cup. We have a great team to build from
I think it's alluding to the fact that with the next one being in India spin will be a massive factor and as is par for the course for NZ teams we aren't exactly strong in this area.
We're gonna need one or two openers ( depending on where Nicholls bats ) and an excellent spinner emerging would be nice too.
Sodhi and Santner aren't gonna scare anyone.
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@MN5 Maybe not. Santner was pretty bloody good in this World Cup.
If Ish gets a bit more control over the next four years, he can certainly turn it. We've potentially got Ajaz Patel in the wings - Somerville and Craig might be a bit long in the tooth. Kane can spin it.
Will Young should be a batting contender.
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@Hooroo said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
4 seamers and no spinners in the tournament XI.
That stat alone is probably the most pertinent when judging if NZ have missed their only ever chance at a world cup, rather than what age Sodhi and Blundell will be in 2023.
Btw, where will the tournament be hosted in 2023, I assume India?
Yes, India.
I don't get the last chance to win a world cup. We have a great team to build from
It's because we've had a bit of a golden generation of cricketers in recent times, with a handful of genuinely world class players backed up by a very competent support cast. 4 years is a long time and it's likely we won't have some of those players at the next WC.
The Caps are not like the ABs where they churn out world class players on a regular basis; the 2015 and 2019 teams are the best we've had at WCs.
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@No-Quarter almost like... We're getting better? 😁
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Congrats England but wtf do we have to listen to the endless drivel and fawning of their team
Feel for Guppy, it wasn't his fault, nor any of the BCs. They gave it everything. and emptied the tank.
It was a ridiculous way to decide a WC., the laws are a complete joke and need to be reviewed. -
@Chris-B said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@MN5 Maybe not. Santner was pretty bloody good in this World Cup.
If Ish gets a bit more control over the next four years, he can certainly turn it. We've potentially got Ajaz Patel in the wings - Somerville and Craig might be a bit long in the tooth. Kane can spin it.
Will Young should be a batting contender.
Shit....are our standards really that low for you to say that ? wow.
You seriously think ( from start to finish ) 1/5, 1/41, 1/45, 0/61, 0/38, 0/23, 1/65, 2/34 ( ok that effort was very good ) and 0/11 are pretty bloody good ?
That's 53.83 per wicket. Some good economy at times I'll definitely give him that and I'll excuse the batting return as he got fuck all quality time.
But "pretty bloody good" that is not overall.
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@No-Quarter said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Hooroo said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@Rapido said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@ACT-Crusader said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
4 seamers and no spinners in the tournament XI.
That stat alone is probably the most pertinent when judging if NZ have missed their only ever chance at a world cup, rather than what age Sodhi and Blundell will be in 2023.
Btw, where will the tournament be hosted in 2023, I assume India?
Yes, India.
I don't get the last chance to win a world cup. We have a great team to build from
It's because we've had a bit of a golden generation of cricketers in recent times, with a handful of genuinely world class players backed up by a very competent support cast. 4 years is a long time and it's likely we won't have some of those players at the next WC.
The Caps are not like the ABs where they churn out world class players on a regular basis; the 2015 and 2019 teams are the best we've had at WCs.
Far and away....no comparison.
Sure we've had individuals like Paddles, Crowe, Bondy etc but their support cast was found wanting at various times.
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@MN5 Yep!
Which spinners finished among the top wicket takers?
I think the best was Chahal with 12 - and Mitch out-bowled him in the semi. Tahir, Shakib and Rashid - each with 11. Mitch outbowled Rashid in the final, as well.
Better economy rate than any of them - and pretty much of any spinner that played a major role in the tournament .
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@Chris-B said in CWC Final - Black Caps v England:
@MN5 Yep!
Which spinners finished among the top wicket takers?
I think the best was Chahal with 12 - and Mitch out-bowled him in the semi. Tahir, Shakib and Rashid - each with 11. Mitch outbowled Rashid in the final , as well.
Better economy rate than any of them - and pretty much of any spinner that played a major role in the tournament .
I suppose those are good points and I'm probably looking a bit with rose tinted specs at what the really good spinners have done in the past. 6 wickets is less than what those guys got and that has to play a part in the final evaluation.
We're probably a bit spoilt in this era. I'd love a spinner who is KW/Rossco/Boult class.
Even Vettori probably wasn't quite that overall.
As others have said it's gonna be fucken tough winning over there in 2023 without a pretty amazing spinner. It's probably too much for our plucky nation to hope for. It'll be tough enough given Guptill and Taylor won't be there although in the formers case this is a good thing.
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@MN5 Yeah - the question is how the run-rate effectiveness of Mitch in this tournament would shape up on Indian pitches - compared to quite how lethal Chahal looked at times.
But, he was definitely pretty good in this tournament.
What would be really cool would be if Mitch could improve his batting to the point where he becomes a genuine top 6 batsman. Ish becomes a world class leggie and Ajaz comes into the equation as a decent option, as well (and Kane continues to bowl decently).
We could have a four-pronged spin attack on the sub-c0ntinent, along with Boult, Henry and Ferguson - and whoever else comes along in the meantime.
