All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga
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@Bronze said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
Mo'unga is kicking at 63% this season. Barrett is kicking at 83%. Seems like Richie being the better kicker is a bit of a myth.
Sides that don't take penalties will have lower kicking percentages than sides who do. All those awkward sideline conversions.
We need rather more than flat percentages to make a comparison.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
No, he had low scores in the first 3 rounds. Currently, he's kicking better than BB, but obviously, if you average it, BB is still higher.
But if you ignore some of BB misses his %age is even higher
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@Duluth As @Chester-Draws says, it's way more complex than just percentages. You also need to look at where on the field they were taken, for example. Longer distance kicks, for example, BB doesn't take them (Jordie does), so can't miss them either.
Also, game management is way more important than goal kicking. Especially with more than one goal kicker in the squad.
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I am taking Jordie Barrett over Richie.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
@shark Yep, but Hansen said that when they could still pick Dmac. They'll re-think some of their plans. Having said that, Mo'unga is probably the better 10 and BB the better fullback of the two, so why would they move RM to fullback, if they can move BB there?
But at AB level Barrett is a better 10 than Richie (right now).
I like the lineup @shark put up but with Crotty and Goodhue starting and ALB off the bench. ALB has been a key man in that second half for us.
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@Magpie_in_aus said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
I am taking Jordie Barrett over Richie.
ha ha, I read that as 'over Richie McCaw', and thought you were trolling.
... and now I'm smirking
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Don't put too much weight on Bulls thrashing in the Mo'unga versus Barrett debate
Crusaders flyhalf Richie Mo’unga delivered a fine performance against the hapless Bulls in Pretoria, bagging a personal tally of 20 points, two tries, and one assist.
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Bullshit Article did he forget the Crusaders were also in his words DEPLETED no Owen Franks,Sam Whitelock,Will Jordan and the last 30 minutes all the subs were on for the Crusaders
and the string of penalties as he put it came from a group of poor SA Refs you can only play what gets put up against you. Poor Article -
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@Canerbry and some people are also forgetting the fact that Beaudy can do things no other player in the world can do, which in-turn has also won us plenty of test matches in the past. You take the good with the bad. Carter wasn't always perfect, but he performed when it mattered and I expect the same with Beauden. Class is permanent and Beaudy more than makes up for his odd kicking inaccuracy with some sublime footy.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
I get the impression that BB looks flaky under real pressure. In saying that, I don't know if I have seen Mounga cope well under pressure?
No 10 looks good when their time and space gets shut down.
For all of our veterans, we need them there for (hopefully) three big games in September. Hansen and Co will have an opinion on that - the entire year will be building to the business end of that tournament.
Loosies are the concern for me. Read hasn't showed a lot since his back injury; hopefully this year he keeps building. but we're going in 'hoping' someone re-finds their form. When the acid comes on (as it will in a knockout game), then we'll be looking to the experienced heads to keep the team going. Compared to 2015, this is a big step down, and should be a magic tournament as a result.
The reality is the BB has been the guy in all the pressure games, and thus is the guy most equipped to deal with it due to the shear weight of experiences. If Mounga.
I thought Beaudy was into everything vs the Blues, it was interesting that Ardie, TJ, Beaudy and Jordy all stood out by miles in the Hurricanes team, they were involved in everything certainly building towards the pointy end.
Richies time will come, and the two might become a hell of a double act post RWC. -
I don't think the experience thing works.
Cruden came into the ABs totally green -- and yet we never lost with him running the ship. A young McCaw was better than an experienced Holah. Milner-Skudder would never have started last RWC based on experience.
Better is simply better. Experience, by itself, doesn't make you better.
If Mo'unga is better he should start. If you think Barrett is better then he should start. But "experience" is just a bullshit way of justifying your preference without actually being better.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
No 10 looks good when their time and space gets shut down.
Some look better than others. Some go to pieces like Sexton did this 6N.
BB doesn't go to pieces but I don't think he's as good as say, Carter or Wilkinson, under pressure. Haven't seen enough of Ritchie under pressure to see how he does.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
But "experience" is just a bullshit way of justifying your preference without actually being better.
Are you saying Ma'a & Conrad's experience of playing together was irrelevant to how well they played individually? And a player having been in tricky situations before and knowing how to react or play is unimportant.
Righto....
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
Are you saying Ma'a & Conrad's experience of playing together was irrelevant to how well they played individually?
I'm sure it is important. Although not important enough to preemptively break up in a World Cup Final.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
I don't think the experience thing works.
Cruden came into the ABs totally green -- and yet we never lost with him running the ship.
Not the best example, he was massively shaky to start and didn't have the pressure of goal kicking either. He needed Slade to bail him out of his first Bledisloe.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
I don't think the experience thing works.
Cruden came into the ABs totally green -- and yet we never lost with him running the ship. A young McCaw was better than an experienced Holah. Milner-Skudder would never have started last RWC based on experience.
Better is simply better. Experience, by itself, doesn't make you better.
If Mo'unga is better he should start. If you think Barrett is better then he should start. But "experience" is just a bullshit way of justifying your preference without actually being better.
Mike Catt
Off the bench England v Wales RWC 2003
Materclass of experience and skill -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
But "experience" is just a bullshit way of justifying your preference without actually being better.
Are you saying Ma'a & Conrad's experience of playing together was irrelevant to how well they played individually? And a player having been in tricky situations before and knowing how to react or play is unimportant.
Righto....
They were still the best 12 and 13 going around though. Crotty and SBW were used as bench options and occasional starter, but they were both behind the former two.
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@rotated said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
Are you saying Ma'a & Conrad's experience of playing together was irrelevant to how well they played individually?
I'm sure it is important. Although not important enough to preemptively break up in a World Cup Final.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks starting 10: Beauden Barrett or Richie Mo'unga:
I don't think the experience thing works.
Cruden came into the ABs totally green -- and yet we never lost with him running the ship.
Not the best example, he was massively shaky to start and didn't have the pressure of goal kicking either. He needed Slade to bail him out of his first Bledisloe.
@Nepia has already partially addressed this. Kaino made a huge difference. Cruden was also carrying a wee niggle.
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Experience has to count for something , if two players are relatively even , you favor the experienced one in a big game surely ,
If you get someone like a J Savea , struggling , and a younger Reiko looking the much better option, the experience part only isnt enough .
