Racism in NZ
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It's coming up 20 years since I lived there, so most of my comments are (hopefully) outdated now, but some observations from this white fella.... (side note .. Razz specifically asked for observations from our more heavily melanin friends .. but a lot of white people have responded ... i think some woke people think of that as racist).
Anyway, I'm going to be blatantly honest. I was racist when I left NZ. Not in a derogatory way towards your average Maori / Poly about everything, but I had more than enough observations to conclude, in many situations (all around sport or alcohol), they were violent people. School rugby against the more maori clubs in the bay always ended in violence. I played probably 50 games as a schoolboy, and 3 of them were called off. All against the same team, which was 100% Maori. When walking home from school, you crossed the road if a group of Maori/Poly boys were walking towards you. As I got older and started to drink (more than) my share of bevvies I would see loads of fights in town. I regularly went out in Hamilton, Tauranga, Auckland and less occasionally Palmie. I saw fights, king-hits, people jumped from behind etc on an at least bi-monthly basis. On most occasions, the perpetrators were Maori/Poly.
I'm not saying White people were innocent, not at all. But from my observations, I came to a natural conclusion to be much more cautious around that demographic. I never went to Manukau / Otara when I lived in Akl as I viewed it as not safe. I had a few Poly boys in my group of friends, who pretty much so held the same views as me.
Therefore, I must conclude,I was racist.
Now, to be clear, I was never any sort of flag waving moron, and I worked with plenty of Maori/Poly and got on great with all of them. I was never prejudiced in that I wouldn't employ them, or I'd actively choose white people or anything. Not that level.
As for now ... well, I'm less bothered honestly. I don't find myself in those situations when in NZ so hard to observe anything. I do have an Asian wife now though, so have found myself in some situations where I think people were being casually racist, but then perhaps I was being overly sensitive. Or naive . I dunno.
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@MajorRage said in Racism in NZ:
I'm not saying White people were innocent, not at all. But from my observations, I came to a natural conclusion to be much more cautious around that demographic. I never went to Manukau / Otara when I lived in Akl as I viewed it as not safe. I had a few Poly boys in my group of friends, who pretty much so held the same views as me.
Therefore, I must conclude,I was racist.
Sorry but can you explain how that makes you racist?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Racism in NZ:
@MajorRage said in Racism in NZ:
I'm not saying White people were innocent, not at all. But from my observations, I came to a natural conclusion to be much more cautious around that demographic. I never went to Manukau / Otara when I lived in Akl as I viewed it as not safe. I had a few Poly boys in my group of friends, who pretty much so held the same views as me.
Therefore, I must conclude,I was racist.
Sorry but can you explain how that makes you racist?
Yeah I don’t see how that is racist.
Did you mean mean in the current PC climate where everything is offensive and that saying that everything is offensive is stereotyping and therefore being offensive..ironic type of way?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Racism in NZ:
Can you show some examples of Tommy Robinson being racist? Because it just sounds like you have been drinking the cool aid smear.
Looks like The Sun - hardly a right-on, politically correct newspaper - been drinking cool-aid too.
In the video "He calls out to the man and asks: “Bro, do you know where this pub is? I’ve got a name of a pub - can I get a taxi? Little paki that drives a car.”
"In another video he drunkenly sings that he is “king of the whole Islam race”.
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Saying a certain racial group appears to have a specific problem - e.g Sth Asian taxi drivers grooming white girls isn't racist - it's fact or informed opinion. Ditto that the US south has or had a problem with white supremacists, some maori communities have a problem with domestic violence or some white communities don't look after older people well enough.
Saying that Sth Asian taxi drivers can't be trusted with white female passengers or white people from the US south can't be trusted to treat black people fairly is racist. As is using deliberately offensive terms like n*****s, h... kies or p.kis.
Too many social justice warriors and "progressives" confuse the two things IMHO.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Racism in NZ:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Racism in NZ:
Can you show some examples of Tommy Robinson being racist? Because it just sounds like you have been drinking the cool aid smear.
Looks like The Sun - hardly a right-on, politically correct newspaper - been drinking cool-aid too.
In the video "He calls out to the man and asks: “Bro, do you know where this pub is? I’ve got a name of a pub - can I get a taxi? Little paki that drives a car.”
"In another video he drunkenly sings that he is “king of the whole Islam race”.
I think the first comment is racist, although I think calling someone a paki one time make you eligible for what you said.
As for the second, that isnt racist. Arguably bigoted /obnoxious though. -
I worked with a Racist White Guy on a dairy farm on the outskirts of Hamilton. When a group of Asian tourists died in a van crash he said it was a good thing to have less of them. At Friday night drinks he showed NAZI emblems on his phone. He said he was going into town on Saturday night to get into fights with Maoris.
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@mikedogz said in Racism in NZ:
I worked with a Racist White Guy on a dairy farm on the outskirts of Hamilton. When a group of Asian tourists died in a van crash he said it was a good thing to have less of them. At Friday night drinks he showed NAZI emblems on his phone. He said he was going into town on Saturday night to get into fights with Maoris.
Jesus, that's like another world. I don't come across fuckers like that
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It's sometimes worth considering where racism comes from and although it might feel heroic screaming at someone and branding them a racist that maybe that isn't going to do anything to fix the problem.
A mate of mine in London lived with a white Zimbabwean guy and this guy just hated black people. I got filled in on the background however a few years previous his father and maybe uncle were murdered as part of Mugabes plan to remove white farm owners.
It doesn't make his racism right but it does make it pretty damn understandable if you and your family had been through something like that.
Incidentally he found Jesus a couple years back joined a very multicultural church and those hateful racist days are all very far behind him. It looks like compassion from those who he thought he hated made a pretty huge difference here.
Well worth watching this Netflix doco about Daryl Davis a black man who made friends with the KKK on how to beat racism.
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A couple of days ago a white privilege hashtag was trending on twitter, where a bunch of white people talked about how they have privilege and what they get away with because of it. So my wife put out the call on her Facebook for people to talk about their white privilege (yeah she likes to debate people...).
Anyway she had a Canadian guy that has worked as a teacher in northern and predominantly native population schools talk about the racism his kids experienced, being called savages etc. and that he has white privilege as it doesn't happen to him.
I got her permission to post her response as she does a good job of articulating the problems with the idea of white privilege and why we need to stop going on about it all the time:
I think it is absolutely abhorrent for people to direct that type of language to anyone let alone children. I don’t dispute that your students have dealt with racism, and unfortunately, they probably will for the rest of their lives, I say this because I am in their shoes. No amount of legislation or multiculturalism will ever get rid of hateful ideas like racism, there will always be hateful people for whatever reason. I think the work you have done with indigenous kids and children in general is commendable, teachers play one of the most important roles in shaping society. I really admire people like you because I was raised by teachers, and some of the best role models I have had in my life have been my teachers (all of whom were white). The way I see racism and how I would explain it especially to young people of colour is that when I was their age, I wish someone would have told me that my worth does not come from the colour of my skin. I have come to learn that as a human being, I don’t derive any value from skin colour, just like I don’t place any value on my eye colour or my hair colour as they are just immutable human characteristics that I have no control over whatsoever. It comes from the things that I have worked for; like being a good mother, a person of good character and a good lawyer. This is what Martin Luther King Jr meant when he said that a person should not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character. I am a Torres Strait Islander which makes me an indigenous Australian. My biggest concern is for kids from indigenous and minority backgrounds not just in Australia but from all over the world. I worry about their mindset and the impact ideas such as white privilege has on their mental health. I say that particularly because indigenous kids in Australia (and in fact NZ) suffer from high rates of depression, anxiety and suicide, granted there are various reasons for that but this is an important one. The focus on race and skin colour has very bad consequences for their mental health and this was the case for me growing up in NZ. A lot of kids from indigenous and minority backgrounds face poverty and domestic violence and when you throw in the idea that society is rigged against us, how can you expect us to have a positive outlook on life? Take for example a young indigenous girl in Australia, and she is one of many who has taken her life, in her last Facebook post she talked about how racist the world was. It makes my blood boil that kids are being told that they have no hope before they even have the chance to properly experience the world. The whole concept of white privilege promotes the idea that indigenous and minority kids have no chance, when we know that privilege exists in many different forms and that not all white people are privileged. Privilege does not solely come from skin colour, we need to stop giving our children that message. I would also add that I think the idea of white privilege is reprehensible and it is not because some white people are not privileged, people from various backgrounds have privileges. But the idea that you can target an ethnic group with a collective crime regardless of the innocence or guilt of the individuals of that group; there is nothing more racist than that.
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@No-Quarter smart woman that wife of yours. Well said.
Another woman whose only discernible fault is her taste in men huh?😉 -
@No-Quarter That's awesome, you're a lucky man!
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@Rembrandt said in Racism in NZ:
@No-Quarter That's awesome, you're a lucky man!
I dunno. Not sure I’d be happy with a wife that is so obviously right.
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@Catogrande said in Racism in NZ:
@Rembrandt said in Racism in NZ:
@No-Quarter That's awesome, you're a lucky man!
I dunno. Not sure I’d be happy with a wife that is so obviously right.
I think he got his handle from his missus!!
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@No-Quarter said in Racism in NZ:
A couple of days ago a white privilege hashtag was trending on twitter, where a bunch of white people talked about how they have privilege and what they get away with because of it. So my wife put out the call on her Facebook for people to talk about their white privilege (yeah she likes to debate people...).
Anyway she had a Canadian guy that has worked as a teacher in northern and predominantly native population schools talk about the racism his kids experienced, being called savages etc. and that he has white privilege as it doesn't happen to him.
I got her permission to post her response as she does a good job of articulating the problems with the idea of white privilege and why we need to stop going on about it all the time:
I think it is absolutely abhorrent for people to direct that type of language to anyone let alone children. I don’t dispute that your students have dealt with racism, and unfortunately, they probably will for the rest of their lives, I say this because I am in their shoes. No amount of legislation or multiculturalism will ever get rid of hateful ideas like racism, there will always be hateful people for whatever reason. I think the work you have done with indigenous kids and children in general is commendable, teachers play one of the most important roles in shaping society. I really admire people like you because I was raised by teachers, and some of the best role models I have had in my life have been my teachers (all of whom were white). The way I see racism and how I would explain it especially to young people of colour is that when I was their age, I wish someone would have told me that my worth does not come from the colour of my skin. I have come to learn that as a human being, I don’t derive any value from skin colour, just like I don’t place any value on my eye colour or my hair colour as they are just immutable human characteristics that I have no control over whatsoever. It comes from the things that I have worked for; like being a good mother, a person of good character and a good lawyer. This is what Martin Luther King Jr meant when he said that a person should not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character. I am a Torres Strait Islander which makes me an indigenous Australian. My biggest concern is for kids from indigenous and minority backgrounds not just in Australia but from all over the world. I worry about their mindset and the impact ideas such as white privilege has on their mental health. I say that particularly because indigenous kids in Australia (and in fact NZ) suffer from high rates of depression, anxiety and suicide, granted there are various reasons for that but this is an important one. The focus on race and skin colour has very bad consequences for their mental health and this was the case for me growing up in NZ. A lot of kids from indigenous and minority backgrounds face poverty and domestic violence and when you throw in the idea that society is rigged against us, how can you expect us to have a positive outlook on life? Take for example a young indigenous girl in Australia, and she is one of many who has taken her life, in her last Facebook post she talked about how racist the world was. It makes my blood boil that kids are being told that they have no hope before they even have the chance to properly experience the world. The whole concept of white privilege promotes the idea that indigenous and minority kids have no chance, when we know that privilege exists in many different forms and that not all white people are privileged. Privilege does not solely come from skin colour, we need to stop giving our children that message. I would also add that I think the idea of white privilege is reprehensible and it is not because some white people are not privileged, people from various backgrounds have privileges. But the idea that you can target an ethnic group with a collective crime regardless of the innocence or guilt of the individuals of that group; there is nothing more racist than that.
You should get her on the Fern. Problem is, every post would be a mike drop moment and end the thread.
The thing I find really disturbing with identity politics is this enhancement of the victim complex. As your better half eludes to, believing you're a victim with the system rigged against you isn't going to give you much motivation to succeed in life and, most damaging of all, gives you plenty of excuses for failing and not even trying at all. While I'm also happy to give those less off a helping hand, the victim narrative may also create a sense of entitlement. The fact is that only a very fortunate few actually get handed everything in life. The vast majority still have to work in some way for what they have. The trick is making opportunities available to everyone. Doesn't mean racism doesn't exist and shouldn't be stamped out at every opportunity, but it shouldn't be built up to an extent that dreams are killed even before they get a chance to be realised.
One thing I would add is how level headed and sensible this thread has been. A few years ago I recounted an incident when my Norwegian wife and then 4 year old son were racially abused by an aboriginal woman. They were just standing there waiting for me to pick them up. A certain poster here retorted that they pretty much had it coming and that we had no right to be upset. Iirc there were plenty of upvotes as well. I'd like to think those posters views have evolved since then. The idea that I should tell a 4 year old that he should accept racial abuse because someone with his skin colour did some nasty shit decades ago is beyond absurd and flies in the face of everything MLK preached about.