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Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?

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Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?
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  • NepiaN Offline
    NepiaN Offline
    Nepia
    replied to nzzp on last edited by
    #136

    @nzzp said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @booboo said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    Whilst not being "remotely close" 11 and 8 years ago who knows what they may have achieved if they had stayed in NZ rugby and had success at Super and NPC level.

    Hard getting coaching gigs here - you're up against former all black bias (JK, Hammett, Tana). Not convinced they'll get a fair crack necessarily

    That shouldn't hinder Gats then.

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  • dogmeatD Offline
    dogmeatD Offline
    dogmeat
    replied to nzzp on last edited by dogmeat
    #137

    @nzzp Gatland was an AB

    @booboo You've omitted Gatland's time coaching Ireland so over 13 seasons in total plus two Lions tours. I doubt there has ever been a more experienced candidate for AB coach.

    How have ex Wales coaches gone before?

    I think Foster will get the gig barring a meltdown in Japan.

    How do he and Gatland get along?

    taniwharugbyT boobooB rotatedR 3 Replies Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to dogmeat on last edited by
    #138

    @dogmeat hopefully well.

    Being a former AB certainly gets your foot in the door much further than if you were not.

    dogmeatD 1 Reply Last reply
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  • dogmeatD Offline
    dogmeatD Offline
    dogmeat
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #139

    @taniwharugby yet in the professional era there have been 5 RWC cycles only one of which (Smith/Mitchell) had an ex AB in charge. Non AB's have led us to two World Cups and a first ever series win in SA

    taniwharugbyT boobooB canefanC 3 Replies Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to dogmeat on last edited by taniwharugby
    #140

    @dogmeat

    sorry, I meant just in general, not specifically the top job...I mean look at how often former ABs are fast tracked at M10/Super level, although I think NZR may have seen this isnt ideal and most are following a path through M10, U21, super now....

    Some still work thier way up through the ranks (Razor is a good example) but those who have not been ABs have to prove thier worth just that bit more.

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  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to nzzp on last edited by
    #141

    @nzzp said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @booboo said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    Whilst not being "remotely close" 11 and 8 years ago who knows what they may have achieved if they had stayed in NZ rugby and had success at Super and NPC level.

    Hard getting coaching gigs here - you're up against former all black bias (JK, Hammett, Tana). Not convinced they'll get a fair crack necessarily

    Warren Gatland ...

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  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to dogmeat on last edited by
    #142

    @dogmeat said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @nzzp Gatland was an AB

    @booboo You've omitted Gatland's time coaching Ireland so over 13 seasons in total plus two Lions tours. I doubt there has ever been a more experienced candidate for AB coach.

    How have ex Wales coaches gone before?

    I think Foster will get the gig barring a meltdown in Japan.

    How do he and Gatland get along?

    I was referencing the qwuoted post as correct.

    What? You want me to check my facts?

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  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to dogmeat on last edited by
    #143

    @dogmeat said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @taniwharugby yet in the professional era there have been 5 RWC cycles only one of which (Smith/Mitchell) had an ex AB in charge. Non AB's have led us to two World Cups and a first ever series win in SA

    One (I'm pretty sure ... I'm not checking) wasn't even a first class player.

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  • canefanC Offline
    canefanC Offline
    canefan
    replied to dogmeat on last edited by canefan
    #144

    @dogmeat said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @taniwharugby yet in the professional era there have been 5 RWC cycles only one of which (Smith/Mitchell) had an ex AB in charge. Non AB's have led us to two World Cups and a first ever series win in SA

    What does that tell you about the wisdom of picking ex-players and ignoring coaches that have worked their way up through the ranks? Out of Super rugby winning NZ coaches of recent times, there have been as many non ABs (Rennie, Boyd) as ABs (Razor, Jamie Joseph). Lots of ex-ABs have coached and flopped in the meantime

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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to Nepia on last edited by
    #145

    @Nepia said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @Chris-B said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @Nepia If they're going to change the Crusaders' name, I wonder if they'd consider "The Hammers"?

    The psychological advantage would be worth two wins a season over the Hurricanes! 🙂

    The Hammers with Hammeteur at the helm - you've heard of the fall of the Roman empire right? It's all falling it to place.

    We'll never get Hammer now that the Chiefs and the ABs have him in their sights!

    We could also run with the Toddies - should be good for an IRB subsidy or two! 🙂

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  • rotatedR Offline
    rotatedR Offline
    rotated
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by rotated
    #146

    @taniwharugby said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @dogmeat

    sorry, I meant just in general, not specifically the top job...I mean look at how often former ABs are fast tracked at M10/Super level, although I think NZR may have seen this isnt ideal and most are following a path through M10, U21, super now....

    Some still work thier way up through the ranks (Razor is a good example) but those who have not been ABs have to prove thier worth just that bit more.

    Is he though? Rob Penny had a similar resume over longer and got absolutely nowhere near a Super role. Rennie, had a slightly different path but again was made to wait for far too long.

    That is not to say that these ex-ABs didn't have solid resumes worthy of appointment (including Umaga and Kirwan) I can't think of a single Super Rugby coaching role where a tie-breaker hasn't gone with an ex-AB, up to and including Coventry vs MacDonald.

    This hasn't happened for a while with the ABs because the stakes are too high to pick on anything but (perceived) merit - which is what makes this next appointment interesting.

    Chris B.C taniwharugbyT 2 Replies Last reply
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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to rotated on last edited by
    #147

    @rotated Colin Cooper over Kieran Keane.

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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to rotated on last edited by
    #148

    @rotated Razor is a good example of someone who has worked his way up and through the system as opposed to say Hammett...

    rotatedR 1 Reply Last reply
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  • rotatedR Offline
    rotatedR Offline
    rotated
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #149

    @taniwharugby said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @rotated Razor is a good example of someone who has worked his way up and through the system as opposed to say Hammett...

    He worked his way up sure, but you non-ABs have to work their way up a lot further consider the gauntlet Plumtree/Rennie/Boyd were forced to run to get their first Super postings and paths Schmidt/Cotter/Haig would have needed to take if they stayed. They certainly wouldn't be given a Super Rugby HC job with three years head coaching experience.

    To be fair Hammett like Gibson (to the Tahs) and Mauger (to Leicester) was probably more of a case as clubs wanting to sprinkle magic Crusaders-dust over their teams (Blues have ignored those results and are attempting again).

    Chris B.C taniwharugbyT 2 Replies Last reply
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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to rotated on last edited by
    #150

    @rotated To be fair, Leon's spent a pretty decent and successful apprenticeship before getting the Blues job.

    If someone was going to be promoted from the NPC then he was the outstanding candidate.

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  • antipodeanA Offline
    antipodeanA Offline
    antipodean
    wrote on last edited by
    #151

    As good as Razor's record has been it's not been with the Blues has it?

    It's genuinely difficult to go past Gatland's record of success. Hopefully whoever gets the gig brings him on board.

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to antipodean on last edited by
    #152

    @antipodean Without really disagreeing with you that Warren's probably done well with the resources available to him, his overall record is a bit patchy.

    Warren Gatland - Wikipedia

    Warren Gatland - Wikipedia

    By my quick count, his combined record against NZ, Oz and SA is played 50 for 9 wins, 1 draw and 40 losses.

    nzzpN 1 Reply Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to rotated on last edited by
    #153

    @rotated you have kinda made my point re Hammett where they thought the magic Crusader dust would work even though he was still in nappies.

    I certainly think NZR have altered thier view slightly without looking to fast track, but ensuring these coaches get the support and experience.

    Derren Whitcombe is serving out a decent apprenticeship (into about his 6/7th year I guess?) did a couple of seasons as Assistant here, was head coach, then went to Japan for a couple of season, and is now back in M10 Cup and also involved in NZ U20 set up, expect the next logical step will be super rugby for him

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  • nzzpN Offline
    nzzpN Offline
    nzzp
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #154

    @Chris-B said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:

    @antipodean Without really disagreeing with you that Warren's probably done well with the resources available to him, his overall record is a bit patchy.

    Warren Gatland - Wikipedia

    Warren Gatland - Wikipedia

    By my quick count, his combined record against NZ, Oz and SA is played 50 for 9 wins, 1 draw and 40 losses.

    How different is that from Hansen and/or Henry though? And those two had to create the new pathways inside wales to have any chance of success

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to nzzp on last edited by
    #155

    @nzzp A lot more time/games to find the winning formula.

    Hansen was 0-6, but he didn't have a Lions job to pad out his record (Warren has 3 wins and a draw from the Lions).

    Can't tell you about Ted - except he lost 2-1 to Oz with the Lions and I'm pretty sure he never coached against the ABs.

    NepiaN 1 Reply Last reply
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