Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?
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Previously international experience has been specifically mentioned as desired and/or required. But I seem to remember Tew mentioning this time it was not a requirement, which I feel is a nod to Razor being in the race, where as previous couple of times he wouldn't have been. Deans was the last one considered without international experience, he had an even better (well longer higher level of success) but lost out due to not having a team.
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No way in hell the NZ public accepts that style of rugby Gatland excels at.
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I'd take it at the Chiefs right now though.
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@mariner4life said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
No way in hell the NZ public accepts that style of rugby Gatland excels at.
It'd be interesting to see if he stuck to that system so rigidly if he were in an environment more conducive to playing an expansive game. Same goes for Schmidt - other than a few nice set piece moves, most of Irelan'd rugby has been fairly turgid.
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@junior said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
@mariner4life said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
No way in hell the NZ public accepts that style of rugby Gatland excels at.
It'd be interesting to see if he stuck to that system so rigidly if he were in an environment more conducive to playing an expansive game. Same goes for Schmidt - other than a few nice set piece moves, most of Irelan'd rugby has been fairly turgid.
Agree on both counts.
Do you take a punt they can change given different cattle?
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Gatland's Lions teams played some outstanding Rugby, remember the Sean O'Brien try. As have his Wales teams on occasion when conditions allow. It was only really his Wasps team who were always dour and won ugly.
He would expect higher standards from New Zealand goalkickers and defences than in recent years. Like Steve Hansen ( and Ted & Razor) is a superb man manager who gets the best out of his players and can coach them to become better.
I think Gatland's leadership, organisation, experience, tactical skill, humanity and determination hand-in-hand with the right Attack coach could be an outstanding combination for the ABs. I'd love to see him mentor Razor who is growing year-on-year into a very special coach indeed.
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@sparky said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
Gatland's Lions teams played some outstanding Rugby, remember the Sean O'Brien try. As have his Wales teams on occasion when conditions allow. It was only really his Wasps team who were always dour and won ugly.
He would expect higher standards from New Zealand goalkickers and defences than in recent years. Like Steve Hansen ( and Ted & Razor) is a superb man manager who gets the best out of his players and can coach them to become better.
I think Gatland's leadership, organisation, experience, tactical skill, humanity and determination hand-in-hand with the right Attack coach could be an outstanding combination for the ABs. I'd love to see him mentor Razor who is growing year-on-year into a very special coach indeed.
That try was more ad-lib counter attack than well-worked offensive play. (I'm not suggesting that Gats can't coach an attack, just that I don't think that's a good example.)
I agree with the rest of your post, though. Given how poor our defence has been since 2015, I'd be tempted to get in someone with Gats' skills on that basis alone.
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@Kirwan said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
IMO I can’t see what else Scott Robsinson would have to do to get the job.
Each team he’s taken on has won, and played well.
You missed the 2016 Under 20's campaign?
Robertson has impressed, I see him as a future AB coach, but he is still missing the International piece and hasn't faced sufficient adversity. Rennie had a better resume after his two titles and I wouldn't have wanted him either.
Smith by his own admission was appointed too early into his career. Ted would not have been the same coach he became if appointed in 1998. Deans as assistant in 2003 same thing. These guys all had the same or better resumes than Razor and outside of Smith (in some respects) inherited good teams and made them great at provincial level. All were handed some pretty miserable lessons at international level that flogging Natal by 40 points hadn't prepared them for.
Razor needs to take his lumps and coach without having a full hand before he is a HC candidate for me.
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@junior said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
@sparky said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
Gatland's Lions teams played some outstanding Rugby, remember the Sean O'Brien try. As have his Wales teams on occasion when conditions allow. It was only really his Wasps team who were always dour and won ugly.
He would expect higher standards from New Zealand goalkickers and defences than in recent years. Like Steve Hansen ( and Ted & Razor) is a superb man manager who gets the best out of his players and can coach them to become better.
I think Gatland's leadership, organisation, experience, tactical skill, humanity and determination hand-in-hand with the right Attack coach could be an outstanding combination for the ABs. I'd love to see him mentor Razor who is growing year-on-year into a very special coach indeed.
That try was more ad-lib counter attack than well-worked offensive play. (I'm not suggesting that Gats can't coach an attack, just that I don't think that's a good example.)
I agree with the rest of your post, though. Given how poor our defence has been since 2015, I'd be tempted to get in someone with Gats' skills on that basis alone.
That would be Sir Shaun Edwards
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@sparky said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
I think Gatland's leadership, organisation, experience, tactical skill, humanity and determination hand-in-hand with the right Attack coach could be an outstanding combination for the ABs. I'd love to see him mentor Razor who is growing year-on-year into a very special coach indeed.
The Aussies should be scraping around to raise however much it takes to get him (or Schmidt) over there. On balance, though, i think Gats would be a better bet for them
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few points
The NZR would be foolish to overlook Gatland or not have him in a very shortlist.
Gatland's record speaks for itself - with every team.The Welsh squad only a few who would warrant discussion in a world xv. They play for clubs which arent doing very well and he has moulded them into a fantastic team - playing more than the sum of its parts.
The above point is going to be applicable to the ABs as we could be fielding a pretty inexperienced AB side.
The Ab's over the last 18 months are a team less than the sum of their parts.
Our forward pack seems a little unpderpowered and our breakdown strategy needs refining. Gatland is very good in these areas.
Gatland is a hell of a lot better than foster!
I also like the idea of him assisting/mentoring Scott robertson.
The NZR should remove the international coaching requirement/nice to have as it has contributed to the coaching drain, which is hurting as just as much, if not more, than the player drain. Bar robertson and Handsen, all the best NZ coaches are overseas now.
Gatland is a serious contender as is Robertson - if the answer is Foster then I hope it is only because we have won the RWC!
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@nzzp said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
The Aussies should be scraping around to raise however much it takes to get him (or Schmidt) over there. On balance, though, i think Gats would be a better bet for them
Quoting myself, becuase this just popped up. He'd be bloody good for them (and a bit worrying for me):
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@Nepia said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
@nzzp Say it aint so Dave.
Surely coaching the Wallabies kills off any chance of an AB coaching spot?
You'd think so. But then, if you turn those guys around, why the hell not?
If it were me (y'know, renowned for my keyboard coaching skills :D), I'd insist that the coaching comes with a need to re-form and change the player pathways, and a root and branch re-emphasis on pathways, and where the support goes. Wales did it, and it's sure as hell made a difference
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@Chris-B said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
@Nepia said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
@nzzp Say it aint so Dave.
Surely coaching the Wallabies kills off any chance of an AB coaching spot?
Dingo Dave?
better than Wallaby Warren?
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@Chris-B said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
@Nepia said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
@nzzp Say it aint so Dave.
Surely coaching the Wallabies kills off any chance of an AB coaching spot?
Dingo Dave?
He's now dead to me.
Although, Oz have really missed a trick, they really should hire your idol the Hammettuer to help lighten their salary load.
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@Nepia said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
Surely coaching the Wallabies kills off any chance of an AB coaching spot?
I don't see why not? Going directly from another international side directly to the AB HC job is likely always going to be a challenge for obvious reasons.
Throwing your toys out of the cot, trashing the NZRU, and having sub-par results with the Wallabites is what effectively ended Deans' career as a top flight coach.
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@rotated said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
@Nepia said in Who does TSF want to be the next AB coach?:
Surely coaching the Wallabies kills off any chance of an AB coaching spot?
I don't see why not? Going directly from another international side directly to the AB HC job is likely always going to be a challenge for obvious reasons.
Throwing your toys out of the cot, trashing the NZRU, and having sub-par results with the Wallabites is what effectively ended Deans' career as a top flight coach.
Yeah, and doing it all in our media cycle too. Front and centre for comments, any time anything happens.
I think Deans showed how not to do it, but it is tougher to come from Aus coaching to ABs. Europe is a good option for many other reasons (including very different playing/coaching conditions)
