1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs
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@antipodean said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@Catogrande said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
The eye catching comparison is, for me, between McCaw and Jones. Both head and shoulders above their peers. On the one hand you have McCaw’s longevity and the other the way Jones was so different and do much better than his competitors. Jones edges it for me.
Jones the better athlete, but I'd need to have McCaw as captain. That level of example and competitiveness can't be beaten.
Not for me, for me Jones is the better athlete, the better rugby player and has the same competitiveness (and @taniwharugby the work rate, determination and rugby brain). I wont pick a player for their captaincy skills Lee Germon style. I also don't think McCaw had athletic deficiencies, Jones just has godlike ones
.Kaino screwed it for me, until he went stratospheric I'd always select McCaw at 7 and Jones at 6 in my 'best of' team so I wouldn't have this dilemma.
McCaw always starts on Sundays though.
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@Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@antipodean said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@Catogrande said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
The eye catching comparison is, for me, between McCaw and Jones. Both head and shoulders above their peers. On the one hand you have McCaw’s longevity and the other the way Jones was so different and do much better than his competitors. Jones edges it for me.
Jones the better athlete, but I'd need to have McCaw as captain. That level of example and competitiveness can't be beaten.
Not for me, for me Jones is the better athlete, the better rugby player and has the same competitiveness (and @taniwharugby the work rate, determination and rugby brain). I wont pick a player for their captaincy skills Lee Germon style. I also don't think McCaw had athletic deficiencies, Jones just has godlike ones
.Kaino screwed it for me, until he went stratospheric I'd always select McCaw at 7 and Jones at 6 in my 'best of' team so I wouldn't have this dilemma.
McCaw always starts on Sundays though.
I was having the conversation with my step father over the holidays. He in his own right was a very good play who played 7/6/8. I asked him who was the best ever in his eyes as he lived through Meads playing etc and for him it was easy. Michael Jones hands down. Then McCaw. Pretty much gave the same reasons as you listed, @Nepia
I was a bit surprised as I always assumed he would go for Ritchie.
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Waste of time. It would be an absolute massacre. 2015 go to the bench and bring on BB and SBW. Who do 87 bring on? Bernie McCahill? Making these comparisons is utterly pointless.
The only chance the 87 lot would have is if the 87 "rules" permitting blatant thuggery unsettled the 2015ers. But then again, who wants to fark with Kaino, BBBR, Nonu etc. if given free reign to sort shit out the old-fashioned way.
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Combined team
Ben Smith, John Kirwan, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Wayne Shelford, Richie McCaw (cpt), Alan Whetton, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Sean Fitzpatrick (almost put Keven here), Joe Moody
Subs: Sonny Bill Williams (covers midfield) David Kirk (9), Beauden Barrett (10 and back3), Michael Jones (6,7,8), Dane Coles (2), Richard Loe, Charlie Faumuina, Jerome Kaino (lock cover)
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@Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@dK Damn, your selection is as muddled as your (original) numbering.
No Kaino? McDowell over Moody pretty easy. Hmm, I guess I'll have to work out mine now.
To be fair, Kaino was a toss up with AJ, and you can see Kaino is on the reserve bench to cover (cough) Lock. McDowell is tiny compared to modern day props and would be pissed all over by any modern team, can I draw your attention to his short lived come back for Auckland
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@dK said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@dK Damn, your selection is as muddled as your (original) numbering.
No Kaino? McDowell over Moody pretty easy. Hmm, I guess I'll have to work out mine now.
To be fair, Kaino was a toss up with AJ, and you can see Kaino is on the reserve bench to cover (cough) Lock. McDowell is tiny compared to modern day props and would be pissed all over by any modern team, can I draw your attention to his short lived come back for Auckland
Ok, here's mine for others to tear down. Also, I'm rating players by their standing in their era etc - McDowell was pretty dominant, and I'm pretty sure if he had come through in the professional era he'd be up to the job. Otherwise it would just be select all 2015 players.
Kipper, John Kirwan, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Ben Smith, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Wayne Shelford (c), Michael Jones, Jerome Kaino, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Sean Fitzpatrick, Steve McDowell.
Subs: SBW, Fox, Kirk, McCaw, Whetton (G or A), Loe, Moody, Coles.
Fatty Savea gets nowhere near my team on his 2015 performances (one game against France is not a season) so Smith is good enough to switch from the right and if DC goes down in the first minute I want our second best 10 of all time to come on instead of an awesome individual player so Fox over BB.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
Waste of time. It would be an absolute massacre. 2015 go to the bench and bring on BB and SBW. Who do 87 bring on? Bernie McCahill? Making these comparisons is utterly pointless.
The only chance the 87 lot would have is if the 87 "rules" permitting blatant thuggery unsettled the 2015ers. But then again, who wants to fark with Kaino, BBBR, Nonu etc. if given free reign to sort shit out the old-fashioned way.
For some reason the thought of that makes me absolutely piss myself.
Mind you Bernie McCahill with all his limitations, lack of size and current age couldn't have done any worse than 2018 SBW....
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@Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@MN5 I think you despise SBW more than I despise Chris Eaton.
I don't even know who that is.
I don't despise him, on the contrary he comes across as a really decent bloke it's more I despise the free ride he seems to get despite playing like absolute shit.
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@Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@MN5 He's an ex Magpies halfback who kept getting selected despite better options. Even in SBW's worse injury disrupted seasons he's still a more worthy selection (for their respective teams and levels) than Eaton.
Yeah but who actually cares about Hawkes Bay Rugby
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@MN5 said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@MN5 He's an ex Magpies halfback who kept getting selected despite better options. Even in SBW's worse injury disrupted seasons he's still a more worthy selection (for their respective teams and levels) than Eaton.
Yeah but who actually cares about Hawkes Bay Rugby
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Me, Higgins, Stockcar and Stargazer when the Crusaders aren't playing. -
@MN5 said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
Waste of time. It would be an absolute massacre. 2015 go to the bench and bring on BB and SBW. Who do 87 bring on? Bernie McCahill? Making these comparisons is utterly pointless.
The only chance the 87 lot would have is if the 87 "rules" permitting blatant thuggery unsettled the 2015ers. But then again, who wants to fark with Kaino, BBBR, Nonu etc. if given free reign to sort shit out the old-fashioned way.
For some reason the thought of that makes me absolutely piss myself.
Mind you Bernie McCahill with all his limitations, lack of size and current age couldn't have done any worse than 2018 SBW....
Now you've gone and done it...
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Using my crystal ball and adding Strength and Conditioning improvements to the 1987 squad along with experience playing Super Rugby and honing speed playing skills I would see the following..
McDowell
Coles
Franks
BBBR
Whitelock
Jones
McCaw
Shelford
A Smith
Carter
Green
Nonu
C Smith
Kirwan
B SmithDrake
Fitzy
Moody
G Whetton
Kaino
TKB
Fox
BarrettNB: given my concept of the 87 players being trained and experienced to 2015 levels though you would also imagine that Zinny would probably have surpassed Buck and a loosie combo of McCaw, Jones and Zinny would be terrifying.
Craig Green probably the biggest guess there but I have added him as a likely massive improver under modern training/coaching. The added advantage of being an ex mid fielder turned winger provides parallels with Kahui.
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@Bones said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:
@Crucial Not tempted to throw Gallagher in there over Fox/BB?
Sure am, but happy to assume that Fox would be a pretty awesome modern player with a little more size, some defence and the others around him. His game reading and game management are too good to ignore (and I am assuming that the starting team won't need heroics to finish the game). Also (as mentioned by others, he is preferable as an injury replacement)
Gallagher would (IMO) probably be a Ben Smith type clone in the modern age and be equally good but for the makeup of the 23 I like BB on the bench. -
