Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Any chance of a Shag-Tana co-coaching arrangement?
I think for it to match 1991 it would need to be a Shag-Deans combo coaching.
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Greetings from SAFFA land. Look I know you guys are hurting a little but you have to say we are in for a kick ass world cup. A lot of teams on the same level or getting there. Really, for the first time, you can say that there are 4 or 5 teams in it - and maybe one or two more by that time. It's good stuff and great for the game.
Best wishes and much respect - see you guys on the pitch (and in a bar) really soon
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@mariner4life said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Oh, and one more, we are kicking a lot, but our kicks are shit. Either 10m too long, or 10m too short. We contest fuck all, just hand the ball back. Barrett, Smith especially, and DMac need to take responsibility for that, it's just not good enough. Our contested kicks used to be the weapon that got us out of our end, now they just invite endless pressure.
And what is with the mealy mid-range nothing kick offs we can't contest, or that force them back in to the corner?
This. The kicking has been woeful. There is no point putting up kicks if they can't even be contested. Ireland fucked us big time in this regard and that was even without their best no. 9.
I know this won't be popular, particularly based on his form in the latter part of the year, but I think they need to get Jordie at fullback. If, as I suspect, every team will try and bomb us into submission, then the flying giraffe will be more valuable than the mighty midget. DMac is brave, but he's simply too small to compete.
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@nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Any chance of a Shag-Tana co-coaching arrangement?
I think for it to match 1991 it would need to be a Shag-Deans combo coaching.
Shag-Mitchell?
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Thoroughly enjoyed the game, Ireland the deserved victors but there were just fingertips in it for blown tries on our side. Ireland was always going to grow an extra arm in the last 10 mins at home if they were ahead with I'm sure 2013 still very fresh on some minds. I'm not as worried as many on here, we could have easily taken it and Ireland right now are a superb outfit playing at home. I don't think Barrett was anywhere near as bad as some are saying but do agree that he is lacking that support from a crash ball exponent at 12, be that sbw, laumape or nonu. I'm being continuing impressed with Goodhue's performances, just so solid for a young bloke, long ab career ahead I'm sure.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Any chance of a Shag-Tana co-coaching arrangement?
I think for it to match 1991 it would need to be a Shag-Deans combo coaching.
Shag-Mitchell?
The key to the 1991 combo is that they didn't like each other and Hansen and Deans really don't like each other. I guess Hansen may feel the same way about Mitchell, but he's just a loon and Hansen likes Eddie Jones and Jones and Mitchell are pals.
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@snowy said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Looked like a 1991 past it team. Coaches and captain.
Knee jerk reaction? Maybe, but being outplayed like that means that we need to change things.
Yep. Read has been slowly shifting from great to good for a couple of years now. Which is no sin, but if we want to be the best team in the world, we need a captain faster round the park and with better hands than today’s effort.
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@rembrandt said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Thoroughly enjoyed the game, Ireland the deserved victors but there were just fingertips in it for blown tries on our side. Ireland was always going to grow an extra arm in the last 10 mins at home if they were ahead with I'm sure 2013 still very fresh on some minds. I'm not as worried as many on here, we could have easily taken it and Ireland right now are a superb outfit playing at home. I don't think Barrett was anywhere near as bad as some are saying but do agree that he is lacking that support from a crash ball exponent at 12, be that sbw, laumape or nonu. I'm being continuing impressed with Goodhue's performances, just so solid for a young bloke, long ab career ahead I'm sure.
Laumape would have been perfect in a game like that. When you come up against a brick wall, it helps to have the best wrecking ball.
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An epic Test.
POM deservedly MOTM, and Ireland deserved winners.
Schmidt has coached this team brilliantly to beat the ABs.
The try was excellent.
As many have said, you can't win the match without the ball. And yet that has been the game plan for NZ for some time.
Kick away possession with accuracy, put the opposition under pressure and either
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Turn the ball over against an unassembled defence and score
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Force the opposition to kick badly back to you and regain possession in a better part of the field, and score against a fractured defence.
NZ did this all match but were unable to force the above to happen.
Ireland knew what was coming, and executed practically flawlessly all match.
There was no guile from the ABs.
Honestly it was like watching Hansen coached Wales out there. And that is not a compliment.
An aside, how id Kearney escape a yellow?
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@mikethesnow the accuracy is severely lacking, the kicks are all over the show in distance and trajectory. It's galling.
Kearney, yeah ran recklessly into the "zone" with no intention of jumping, for a kick that wasn't going to be caught without jumping. Certainly put himself in line for a card of potentially either colour - but ref's have been a lot more lax on these rulings lately.
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@mariner4life said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
'lots of stuff in 3 posts above"I agree with everything you've said in those 3 posts, and as one of D-Macs biggest critics at this level, that hurts a little to say. I thought he was really good for 50mins today, and one of the likely ones to break it open against tired legs late. Not sure why he drifted so far left before Irelands try (he had 40m to cover), but equally not sure why Smith charged the line the way he did before the kick - seemed a massive miscommunication.
This game was won and lost at the breakdown for me though. We were too slow to get there and too ineffectual when we did. Scrums and lineouts pretty even, but we just lost key possession through ill discipline and poor ruck work that cost us dear. You can't give a side that kicks this well from hand and tee 8 penalties in the first 40mins. That was 9 points and a mountain of territory and momentum.
The 8, 9, 10 nexus looks fractured to me. Read very slow and out of sorts, and AS and BB have been covered at length in this thread. I think all are probably safe next year though, it would take a very brave move to drop any of the 3. I've still got time for Squire at 6, think he deserves more patience. I don't think Barrett is the answer at 6 for 80mins, mostly for reasons of balance as M4L covers above.
On the positive side, we had BBBR and Read and Coles all back from serious injury and all (hopefully) not at peak game fitness yet. I think we can trust the coaching to deliver the rest plan needed to get them all looking sharp again. If there is one thing we have seen at RWC's through the ages, is that they are not won by a bunch of young inexperienced bucks. They are typically won by teams with a core of hardened vets who have seen all manner of situations. Wouldn't be surprised to see a young wing (Bridge the bleeding obvious but could be another) emerge to challenge Naholo and to put DMac back towards the bench to get Smith back at 15 where he belongs.
I have a bunch of Irish mates who have been sending pictures all day of their celebrations - hurts like fck, but you can't argue its great for the game - 4 teams with genuine chances next year. Lets hope the ballot comes through for me!
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@samurai-jack common sense yes, consistency no.
Very clumsy/lazy attempt, seen plenty of YC's for much better efforts the past few years.
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Good game from both sides overall. Early discipline issues from the ABs probably gave Ireland a leg-up and they're good at controlling a game, tho they nearly lost it in that 50-65 minute mark.
Also in this initial period, there was a bit of disjointedness with AB ruck work - ball being placed at A Smith's feet while he's still busy organising the next play. The last man into the ruck wasn't covering up properly, and it wasn't always because he needed to clean out.
Barnes was interesting in that he got a lot of calls right, but the big ones he fell down on: 24th minute could have easily yellow carded Whitelock for being offisde, off his feet, knocking the ball down.
Similarly the first Irish try, the steal from POM that gave them lineout position upfield was clearly illegal. Also a yellow card should have been given to Kearney for his tackle in the air.
Savea should have been done multiple times in the second half for not being on his feet at ruck time, but Wayne had put the whistle away by then and let the players sort it out.
AB reserves added a bit of spice I thought, mostly on defence, but they'd been left too much to do.
Overall I think the ABs were just a little bit off, but also there were none of those bounce-of-the-ball plays that often follow a team who are playing well. Ireland have got a bunch of big boppers with good handling, and a back line that knows how to defend, get back to its feet, and play for each other, and know each other's game well.
The parallels between this Irish team and the ABs under McCaw are obvious: a core of players who have been around for a long time, supplemented by young roosters and a controlling 10. The only thing missing was Conor Murray who I'd say would have made Ireland's job even easier.
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@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least 😉.
But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
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@chris-b yeah I think your right. Long term backs have lots of questions. Power players or skill players? Players in what positions? Is Aaron Smith going to regain his game? What tactics work?
In the forwards, only 6 is the question and I think Barrett should start. He is just better than Squire. Other than that it is about getting the performance where it needs to be. And Cane comes back.
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@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least 😉.
But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
I may be reaching but looking back, and at the time it seemed the kick decision changed everyone's psyche from there on. By everyone, I mean spectators alike. Ireland rose and we sorted of waited for this inevitable equalizing (?) try.
It was a decision that doesn't sit well, balls on the line, kick for an attacking lineout!
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@kev Yeah - I think 6 is the position we're most likely to see a change in the forwards, but I'm inclined to think Hansen will stick with Squire and most of the other positions are pretty settled. Coles might surpass Taylor, but that would be all to the good - two excellent options. Otherwise the main interest is in the squaddies.
In the backs - Hansen must be wondering about 9, 12, and 14/15, plus a few other questions including quite how much he trusts Dmac and/or Mo'unga.
