Hurricanes 2019 Discussion
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@stargazer said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@canes4life Lowe is better than Matt Faddes, Thomas Umaga-Jensen, Tevita Li, Tevita Nabura and Josh McKay.
Hahahahahaha.
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@canes4life said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@tim Painful isn't it. Any one of us could have come up with a better list of squad players and these guys get paid for it.
Funny how in their season review they saw srummaging as a real weakness, yet they bring back every single player from that campaign, including the scrum coach who has been there far too long. If this was the NFL, none of them would have a job anymore.
Some people just don't get that, unlike big money US sports, Super Rugby franchises in NZ don't get the options of clean slate selections to fix areas.
Of course fans could write a wish list better squad but they don't have to pay the bills, break the contracts etc etc. They don't have to negotiate with agents demanding 2 year contracts to secure services. Or try and secure potentially good players before league/NH/another franchise takes them away and they then cop endless criticism from fans for letting someone slip away.
This isn't directed just at C4Ls frustrations but across nearly all the Super selection threads where the system and circumstances we have to deal with are causing misdirected criticism.
I'm not saying we shouldn't point out the problems or look for better, but at least temper criticism with a better understanding of the system these selections are done in.
I'd much rather that MMac had departed the Chiefs and another option was found, but I suspect there wasn't much choice. -
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@kiwimurph said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@crucial this doesnt apply to the Blues. There was no need to re-sign Collins and Tupou a few months ago. There was no need to sign Apisai to a 2 year deal 12 months ago.
Collins and Tupou, yeah, the selectors choice there. Criticise away. My only comment is that pre NPC a non decision on this type of player means you are dismissing them to overseas and hoping to spot/pick up someone else. It's a decision that has to be made at a dumb time, before seeing the options, but yes it is still a decision that you have to live with and cop it when you get it wrong.
I think Apisai falls firmly in the scenario I described where they took a punt on a guy that was getting good raps from the scouts but would have also had pressure from his agent for more than 1 year. You don't really get a choice in that regard unless you are the Crusaders where young players are looking to get their foot in the door no matter what.
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@cgrant said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
Ben-Nicholas' absence from any franchise is beyond me. He was the standout player for Wellington during the M10 Cup and the Canes have no massive ball carrier in their loose forwards.
Agree. He was impressive
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@winger said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@cgrant said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
Ben-Nicholas' absence from any franchise is beyond me. He was the standout player for Wellington during the M10 Cup and the Canes have no massive ball carrier in their loose forwards.
Agree. He was impressive
and had anyone thought he should be a Super player before the NPC?
Our system and the fighting for signings doesn't allow much room (unless lucky) for latecomers to the party that starts before the NPC.
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I'm sure Ben-Nicholas will get a run somewhere with injuries etc. as he was definitely pushing Akira as the best no.8 in the M10 cup. Maybe an Aussie franchise might even pick him up?
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@sparky said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
Great backline yet again. Shame about the Props and Locks. Hope that Fidow and Aumua kick on next season.
Its essential. The team needs these 2 to kick on but also Walker - Leawere. But maybe even Cridge if he has got it
Injuries have been a killer for the last 2 years now. Its an area the Canes need to look at. players seem to be injured even off the field so maybe they need to look at the way they are conditioning players. Especially the tight 5 where we just lack depth. But if the tight 5 don't suffer too many losses then they may be able to compete. But lose our two hookers and other powerful dynamic players like Fidow and WL we won't have a hope. Just having workhorse type players is not enough.
The key when they won was not too many players out. And the Tongan bear fully fit and in outstanding form. The next and his final year he was stuffed with injuries. But just one player in dynamic form made a difference
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@crucial said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@canes4life said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@tim Painful isn't it. Any one of us could have come up with a better list of squad players and these guys get paid for it.
Funny how in their season review they saw srummaging as a real weakness, yet they bring back every single player from that campaign, including the scrum coach who has been there far too long. If this was the NFL, none of them would have a job anymore.
Some people just don't get that, unlike big money US sports, Super Rugby franchises in NZ don't get the options of clean slate selections to fix areas.
Of course fans could write a wish list better squad but they don't have to pay the bills, break the contracts etc etc. They don't have to negotiate with agents demanding 2 year contracts to secure services. Or try and secure potentially good players before league/NH/another franchise takes them away and they then cop endless criticism from fans for letting someone slip away.
This isn't directed just at C4Ls frustrations but across nearly all the Super selection threads where the system and circumstances we have to deal with are causing misdirected criticism.
I'm not saying we shouldn't point out the problems or look for better, but at least temper criticism with a better understanding of the system these selections are done in.
I'd much rather that MMac had departed the Chiefs and another option was found, but I suspect there wasn't much choice.Not to clog up the Canes thread, but there was a choice - whether it was this year or last year, MMac was shit from far beyond 18 months ago. So, why the fuck is he still contracted? Someone either fucked up last year, or fucked up this year - either way the chiefs are a worse team as a result. That's totally on Cooper.
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@gt12 said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@crucial said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@canes4life said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@tim Painful isn't it. Any one of us could have come up with a better list of squad players and these guys get paid for it.
Funny how in their season review they saw srummaging as a real weakness, yet they bring back every single player from that campaign, including the scrum coach who has been there far too long. If this was the NFL, none of them would have a job anymore.
Some people just don't get that, unlike big money US sports, Super Rugby franchises in NZ don't get the options of clean slate selections to fix areas.
Of course fans could write a wish list better squad but they don't have to pay the bills, break the contracts etc etc. They don't have to negotiate with agents demanding 2 year contracts to secure services. Or try and secure potentially good players before league/NH/another franchise takes them away and they then cop endless criticism from fans for letting someone slip away.
This isn't directed just at C4Ls frustrations but across nearly all the Super selection threads where the system and circumstances we have to deal with are causing misdirected criticism.
I'm not saying we shouldn't point out the problems or look for better, but at least temper criticism with a better understanding of the system these selections are done in.
I'd much rather that MMac had departed the Chiefs and another option was found, but I suspect there wasn't much choice.Not to clog up the Canes thread, but there was a choice - whether it was this year or last year, MMac was shit from far beyond 18 months ago. So, why the fuck is he still contracted? Someone either fucked up last year, or fucked up this year - either way the chiefs are a worse team as a result. That's totally on Cooper.
I think most teams end up with an experienced but limited backstop player every now and then. It happens when other options are still a season or so away from this level and there is a toss up between taking a risk on the unknown or taking the devil you know will play a role. Cooper has previously said that MMac plays a big part in training and inferred that his knowledge outstrips his ability. Weigh all that up when you already have a number of youngsters and it makes a little more sense.
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@crucial said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@gt12 said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@crucial said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@canes4life said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@tim Painful isn't it. Any one of us could have come up with a better list of squad players and these guys get paid for it.
Funny how in their season review they saw srummaging as a real weakness, yet they bring back every single player from that campaign, including the scrum coach who has been there far too long. If this was the NFL, none of them would have a job anymore.
Some people just don't get that, unlike big money US sports, Super Rugby franchises in NZ don't get the options of clean slate selections to fix areas.
Of course fans could write a wish list better squad but they don't have to pay the bills, break the contracts etc etc. They don't have to negotiate with agents demanding 2 year contracts to secure services. Or try and secure potentially good players before league/NH/another franchise takes them away and they then cop endless criticism from fans for letting someone slip away.
This isn't directed just at C4Ls frustrations but across nearly all the Super selection threads where the system and circumstances we have to deal with are causing misdirected criticism.
I'm not saying we shouldn't point out the problems or look for better, but at least temper criticism with a better understanding of the system these selections are done in.
I'd much rather that MMac had departed the Chiefs and another option was found, but I suspect there wasn't much choice.Not to clog up the Canes thread, but there was a choice - whether it was this year or last year, MMac was shit from far beyond 18 months ago. So, why the fuck is he still contracted? Someone either fucked up last year, or fucked up this year - either way the chiefs are a worse team as a result. That's totally on Cooper.
I think most teams end up with an experienced but limited backstop player every now and then. It happens when other options are still a season or so away from this level and there is a toss up between taking a risk on the unknown or taking the devil you know will play a role. Cooper has previously said that MMac plays a big part in training and inferred that his knowledge outstrips his ability. Weigh all that up when you already have a number of youngsters and it makes a little more sense.
No it doesn't. He's been included as an outside back. If you're rationale is correct, then he should be the third first five, and that's bad enough. But he's not, he's been selected as a fullback! Despite various other better options being (potentially) available, we've got him. Rayasi went to the Canes, but we could have had him with (perhaps) some effort. Olmstead doesn't have a contract, but we could have potentially had him and strengthened our loose forward mix, but we have MMac and Debreveskhgly - nether of whom any of us really want to see in a chiefs jumper.
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@gt12 said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@crucial said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@gt12 said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@crucial said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@canes4life said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
@tim Painful isn't it. Any one of us could have come up with a better list of squad players and these guys get paid for it.
Funny how in their season review they saw srummaging as a real weakness, yet they bring back every single player from that campaign, including the scrum coach who has been there far too long. If this was the NFL, none of them would have a job anymore.
Some people just don't get that, unlike big money US sports, Super Rugby franchises in NZ don't get the options of clean slate selections to fix areas.
Of course fans could write a wish list better squad but they don't have to pay the bills, break the contracts etc etc. They don't have to negotiate with agents demanding 2 year contracts to secure services. Or try and secure potentially good players before league/NH/another franchise takes them away and they then cop endless criticism from fans for letting someone slip away.
This isn't directed just at C4Ls frustrations but across nearly all the Super selection threads where the system and circumstances we have to deal with are causing misdirected criticism.
I'm not saying we shouldn't point out the problems or look for better, but at least temper criticism with a better understanding of the system these selections are done in.
I'd much rather that MMac had departed the Chiefs and another option was found, but I suspect there wasn't much choice.Not to clog up the Canes thread, but there was a choice - whether it was this year or last year, MMac was shit from far beyond 18 months ago. So, why the fuck is he still contracted? Someone either fucked up last year, or fucked up this year - either way the chiefs are a worse team as a result. That's totally on Cooper.
I think most teams end up with an experienced but limited backstop player every now and then. It happens when other options are still a season or so away from this level and there is a toss up between taking a risk on the unknown or taking the devil you know will play a role. Cooper has previously said that MMac plays a big part in training and inferred that his knowledge outstrips his ability. Weigh all that up when you already have a number of youngsters and it makes a little more sense.
No it doesn't. He's been included as an outside back. If you're rationale is correct, then he should be the third first five, and that's bad enough. But he's not, he's been selected as a fullback! Despite various other better options being (potentially) available, we've got him. Rayasi went to the Canes, but we could have had him with (perhaps) some effort. Olmstead doesn't have a contract, but we could have potentially had him and strengthened our loose forward mix, but we have MMac and Debreveskhgly - nether of whom any of us really want to see in a chiefs jumper.
Aren't you missing the point that this decision was most likely made last year, not this?
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To return to the general point - even about Canes props, to get on topic - the point I'm trying to make is that we can't give coaches a free pass for bad decisions that cost them the following year. They literally get paid to think about that shit. And, most Cane fans may have already been wondering about why the fuck the Canes don't try to develop or pick better props, rather than continuing to re-sign rather shabby ones. In the same vein, Cooper's shit choice to re-sign MMac last year means that he shouldn't make a similar shit choice this year to sign Dbrecvneehksy.
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@gt12 There are some very young, good props coming up in the Canes catchment, who are still too young and green for SR. Examples have been mentioned in this thread: Farrell, Tavita-Metcalfe from the Bay; I think someone mentioned Numia (Wellington). Hopefully, the Canes have signed some of them on development contracts, particularly Farrell, a good LH. Unfortunately, these signings are hardly ever published, but they'll likely play for Canes U20 or Canes Dev in 2019.
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@gt12 said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:
To return to the general point - even about Canes props, to get on topic - the point I'm trying to make is that we can't give coaches a free pass for bad decisions that cost them the following year. They literally get paid to think about that shit.
Maybe not a free pass, but an understanding that any choice that goes wrong gets you stuck for a couple of years. You have to make educated decisions but those decisions also have to factor in the current recruiting environment and who else is available. 2 years seems to be a minimum for most.
FFS on the Saders thread they are arguing whether 3 or 5 years is better because they have better pulling power.Every year we get comments made as if coaches get to work with clean slates to fix problems
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Hurricanes extend All Blacks loose forward
Gareth Evans was one of the standout players for the Hurricanes during the 2018 Super Rugby season.
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It's a real shame the Canes were blocked from pinching Akira. I reckon Evans and Savea playing left and right with Akira at the back would've been a mean super rugby loose trio. Evans was good when he came on last night.
As it stands it appears the Canes will field a fairly benign forward pack in 2019 with only one or two starting players who can make the gain line in heavy traffic.
