Springboks V All Blacks
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@mn5 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@sammyc said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@akan004 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@mariner4life said in Springboks V All Blacks:
I think a telling indicator from the MoTM thread is Sam Whitelock has zero votes. In the absence of BBBR we have really needed him to stand up, but he has not risen to the occasion. Sam is a very very good lock, but jesus he's had a workload this year, the bloke looks like he needs a couple of months off.
Razor needs to start managing Sam's workload a bit better during Super Rugby. He plays him in virtually every game and usually for the entire 80 minutes, even when it's against weaker teams like the Sunwolves.
A quick google search tells me that Sam Whitelock was rested against the Sunwolves this year (not even on the bench).
Sometimes it's not always wise to trust the internet though.
After All, I'm skeptical there's hot teens in my neighbourhood who are dying to meet me.
that's your best post ever.
More than likely.
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@chris-b said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@act-crusader said in Springboks V All Blacks:
I'd be very surprised if RM becomes the incumbent any time soon but he's clearly a good bench option. The big question is then whether you go also include DMac on the bench.
Don't think there's much room or much need for them both. You'd be sacrificing specialist midfield cover and might end up with Rieko at second five!
One thing about having Richie on the bench is that if Ben Smith goes down injured early - does that necessitate shifting Beauden to fullback? That might not be desirable if things are going swimmingly in a big game.
If Richie is going to be the bench option, does he also need to show that he's a credible international fullback?
I think using all three is a good option to test, which is why I'd move BFA to 14, put Dmac at 15, start Barrett, and have Richie coming off the bench. Whether it's a good use of resources or not is a question I'd like to see used in a game or two.
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I'm interested to see what they do in the Japan and Italy tests. Everyone expected Mo’unga to start in Nelson and also likely in Tokyo. I would have thought DMac was a chance to be the fullback vs Japan but that may have changed now with the group leaving early for England (could be JB that plays Japan now). It's likely one of DMac/RM won't be in Japan. I'd give each a start at 1st 5 over those 2 games for experience.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@westcoastie said in Springboks V All Blacks:
I'd like to see more discussion about whether the issues lay more with Aaron Smith than Beaudy.
I feel that when DC played, it was clear who was the on-field general tactics wise. Richie's team management is next level compared to Kieran Read.
I think when we talk about AB leadership and driving the team, maybe we have too many chiefs at the moment. Aaron Smith did some dumb shit in that last test - I reckon if he got back to giving Beaudy the ball quicker and letting the 10 drive things we'd be better off.There is a certain amount of truth to this, A Smith was poor in the first 50 minutes of Saturday. He wasn't helped by some of the worst ball presentation i have seen from an AB side in recent years. But that doesn't excuse some of the decision making, and the inaccuracy of the kicking.
But writing BB's issues off to the halfback is some serious whitewashing. A Smith wasn't at fault for the awful, awful kicking game; the stand and shovel passing game; or the distinct lack of run.
Not all the poor kicking was down to BB though in this test, but A.Smtih wasn't without blame and there were plenty others guilty of rubbish kicking (definitely a collective effort) - South Africas kicks were far more contestable than ours, and we kicked sooo much away aimlessly.
For a number of years, the forwards have been run by the 9, who then guns it to the 10 when he wants it.
Happy to agree/concede that 2018 hasn't been a vintage year for BB (the Australian test aside). But maybe this is the issue, we've got a 9 trying to run things, a 10 trying to run things and probably Kieran Read trying to run things, with Ben Smith also providing input. So again Hansen putting on his leaders to drive things better, maybe all are just trying a bit too hard.
Also, maybe its as simple as missing the work of the likes of Retallick and Squire (these two are probably our most key "outs"
I don't think we're missing Dane Coles that much, Taylor was looking tired though and has had a big campaign thus far.
Not sure we're missing any of the props deemed "first choice" either for that matter.I feel like Beaudy was at his absolute best in 2016, and I think his combination with Crotty was part of that. Its interesting that most first-fives other than Cruden have struggled with SBW outside of them...
If Crotty is the key to unlocking Beaudy, and we all seem to think Goodhue is looking more and more likely the first choice 13 then theres a backline starting to form
9 A.Smith
10 BB
11 Ioane
12 Crotty
13 Goodhue
14 Naholo
15 B.SmithBench
TJP
Mo'unga
SBW -
@westcoastie that is a lot of words just to wind @mariner4life up.
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@act-crusader said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Not that I’m pumping, fluffing, defending, but Sopoaga and Mo’unga are very different players.
Richie - a bit of Cruden and a bit of King Carlos?!
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ooooooosh...
I really like ALB, actually a bit disappointed the AB's didn't give Crotty & ALB the first shot as our centre pairing last season, I thought they complimented each other really well that first season they were paired together (2016?) and if anything - the AB's have looked stifled more often than not since then.
I don't feel SBW has ever really set the rugby world on fire, except for 40min in a RWC final (yes hes done other great things)...it would actually be amazing if Ma'a Nonu could light up Super Rugby so much that hes irresistable for one last RWC...(unlikely I know)It does seem the Goodhue is potentially an AB great. He just has all the attributes doesn't he and just gets better and must be close to our first choice 13 now.
What do the selectors see in SBW?
Doesn't offer a lot on attack apart from the offload (apparently the AB's had just one collectively in the most recent test - that had to be a tactic right?)
Defensively... well, apparently our 10-12-13 missed something like 10 tackles on the weekend.
He doesn't have pace, he doesn't have dancing feet, Laumape is more of a wrecking ball, Crotty seems a better passer.
SBW didn't trouble the Springboks with his physicality.
Actually would've been interesting to see how Laumape might've gone on Saturday just been. -
@mariner4life
Leg break is a massive overreaction, the ball bounced in the direction it came from. if there was a leg break it would not have gone out so close to the tryline. I think its preety clear he didn't intentionally bounced it in the field first, but how took a calculated risk with a good chance to come off should he not get it out on the full -
Massive whingefest happening on the sarugbymag facebook page. The usual complaints about the ABs being favoured by the ref etc and the Boks being robbed of victory.
I felt the ref was pretty fair, he made some bad calls against both teams but no real howlers.
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@akan004 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Massive whingefest happening on the sarugbymag facebook page. The usual complaints about the ABs being favoured by the ref etc and the Boks being robbed of victory.
I felt the ref was pretty fair, he made some bad calls against both teams but no real howlers.
That stuff is music to my ears. Means we are back in the winners circle.
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@akan004 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Massive whingefest happening on the sarugbymag facebook page. The usual complaints about the ABs being favoured by the ref etc and the Boks being robbed of victory.
I felt the ref was pretty fair, he made some bad calls against both teams but no real howlers.
Really? Which calls were even contentious? The forward pass? Never saw a great angle of it honestly but it was more than offset by the awarding of the try that never was 5 mins after.
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What's the story with Faf not being available for the whole EOYT?
I get that the England game is timed before the international window (not that it seems to have affected England) but surely SA can call on him for international duty for the other games? -
@majorrage The forward pass and the last lineout throw which was apparently crooked. Didn't look that bad to me.
Some are also whinging about the Boks not receiving a penalty in the lead up to the Barrett try when they had their guy latched onto the ball and the AB didn't release it. That looked 50/50 to me, I wasn't entirely convinced that the Bok player had his hands on the ball. TJ did a fantastic job of grabbing the ball before the ref had a chance to make a decision anyway.
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@majorrage said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@akan004 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Massive whingefest happening on the sarugbymag facebook page. The usual complaints about the ABs being favoured by the ref etc and the Boks being robbed of victory.
I felt the ref was pretty fair, he made some bad calls against both teams but no real howlers.
Really? Which calls were even contentious? The forward pass? Never saw a great angle of it honestly but it was more than offset by the awarding of the try that never was 5 mins after.
All the Saffas at the pub were calling it a forward pass but I think more from hope than evidence. I doubt very much that the TMO would have had grounds to overturn that given the angles we saw.
More a classic case of forward catch rather than forward pass.As for 'the try that never was', another hard one to judge. If you watch frame by frame there is one clear and legal attempt to plant the ball that is also clearly short at the moment of planting but as the cleanout comes over the top there is also a frame that shows the ball apparently grazing the line. Was this the same movement or a second go? Could easily argue that you can plant the ball down in one forward motion.
It wasn't clear on either count (movement or touching line) but neither was it clear to negate the try.
So yeah, a try each that could possibly be ruled out but neither were howlers.
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@akan004 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@majorrage The forward pass and the last lineout throw which was apparently crooked. Didn't look that bad to me.
Some are also whinging about the Boks not receiving a penalty in the lead up to the Barrett try when they had their guy latched onto the ball and the AB didn't release it. That looked 50/50 to me, I wasn't entirely convinced that the Bok player had his hands on the ball. TJ did a fantastic job of grabbing the ball before the ref had a chance to make a decision anyway.
If TJ got the ball then it was released by whoever was holding it. If a Saffa had their hands on the ball they wouldn't have released it, therefore pretty hard to claim that they were hard done by.
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@crucial said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@akan004 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@majorrage The forward pass and the last lineout throw which was apparently crooked. Didn't look that bad to me.
Some are also whinging about the Boks not receiving a penalty in the lead up to the Barrett try when they had their guy latched onto the ball and the AB didn't release it. That looked 50/50 to me, I wasn't entirely convinced that the Bok player had his hands on the ball. TJ did a fantastic job of grabbing the ball before the ref had a chance to make a decision anyway.
If TJ got the ball then it was released by whoever was holding it. If a Saffa had their hands on the ball they wouldn't have released it, therefore pretty hard to claim that they were hard done by.
If it's the moment I'm thinking of the saffa was playing the ball on the ground, that's why he let go
