Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?
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I'm not sure, TBH, but I am not calling for DMac to be on the field at 10 at all! He's a liability in a tight test, minnows and emergencies only for me - fullback maybe. But the way the Saders defence stood up, maybe we should start hiding our ten in the ABs?
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@pukunui said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
Its worth remembering the whole 10 cover/15 impact bench requirement only made a return after the Lions series when Cruden left. Between then and the Rwc final it was mostly a "proper" 10 on the bench.
My preference would be BB to start with RM on the bench for several reasons.
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RM provides a bit of a different style to BB (as Cruden/Sop did) which can be useful if things aren't working for BB. Dmac just seems to play the BB game with the risk dialed up to 10.
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Instead of trying to recreate the "BB impact at 15" from 2014/2015 with Dmac, why not use the real BB to provide that impact? He has proven time after time that he can still do freakish things after playing 79mins. Especially if given a bit more space by moving to 15.
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Dmac is arguably our 4th best 15 behind Smith, Jordie and BB. I would prefer those guys to be on the park and only change things around if BB at 10 isn't working.
Having said all that my money is on Dmac getting picked on the bench for the foreseeable future.
I did some analysis a while back for the period between 2011 and 2015 and what Hansen and co did with their 1st 5 and bench options. Most games we played with DC starting and one of Cruden and Barrett on the bench. But there were a few games when we had all 3 in the team.
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@stargazer said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
The "playing behind a dominant pack" argument has been over-used, when talking about Mo'unga as an AB first five-eighth. In some instances, it will give him more time to make decisions, but he still has to make the right decisions. And some of the other great stuff he does on the field, has nothing to do with playing behind a dominant pack. Example:
The Havili's try makes me wonder if Goodhue's future would be at 2nd Five Eight instead of centre where his lack of speed could be crippling. ALB or Ioane would have scored this one.
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@cgrant said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
The Havili's try makes me wonder if Goodhue's future would be at 2nd Five Eight instead of centre where his lack of speed could be crippling. ALB or Ioane would have scored this one.
That guy was motoring, and seemed to come from nowhere. The coaches and selectors will have the speeds from camps - they should know how he stacks up against the others
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@cgrant he has plenty enough pace, he is a 13, not a wing or FB; showed it a number of times in M10 cup against quick players, that LIons player was pretty damn quick and had a good angle.
That said, I've said he could be an option at 12, has the defensive game and good distribution, just lacking a good enough kicking game.
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@machpants said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@pakman said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
I can't say I've noticed any particular aspects, but I imagine Ritchie has picked up some great wisdom from ROG, who was a first rate tactical 10.
From someone who has been part of the team coaching RoG, I think
https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/08/01/whos-knocking-on-the-door-at-number-ten/
Excellent article, thanks, @Machpants! Game management hasn't been a strength of our 10s post ACDC.
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I am a Goodhue fan and I watch him closely. I too have some concerns about his top end pace, but to be fair in that instance above, the guy that got him looked fucking quick. I was more disappointed Goodhue didn't see his winger who was unmarked outside him (although a good few yards begind).
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@machpants Why should we hide our 10? Just teach them how to tackle is all.
Concerted classes from a certain other Richie should do the trick.. -
@stargazer I love that the Crusaders have recriuted ROG for next season as well, I wouldn't mind betting that ROG is eyeing up a stint as head coach for Ireland in the not to didtant future.
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@taniwharugby said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@cgrant he has plenty enough pace, he is a 13, not a wing or FB; showed it a number of times in M10 cup against quick players, that LIons player was pretty damn quick and had a good angle.
That said, I've said he could be an option at 12, has the defensive game and good distribution, just lacking a good enough kicking game.
I reckon his pace is fine.
I like him at centre because his real strength of running excellent lines and hitting the gap is better utilised at centre than 2nd 5.
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@cgrant said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@stargazer said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
The "playing behind a dominant pack" argument has been over-used, when talking about Mo'unga as an AB first five-eighth. In some instances, it will give him more time to make decisions, but he still has to make the right decisions. And some of the other great stuff he does on the field, has nothing to do with playing behind a dominant pack. Example:
The Havili's try makes me wonder if Goodhue's future would be at 2nd Five Eight instead of centre where his lack of speed could be crippling. ALB or Ioane would have scored this one.
ALB? He’s improved a little since then, but his lack of pace and QE2 turning, against the Lions was one of the bad memories I have from that series.
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ALB is certainly a bit jinkier on his feet than Goodhue, but Goodhue is quick enough to have been in and around the NZ sevens in the past, and last year it was a toss up whether he or Timanivalu played wing. Ultimately though I'm not worried if our centre can't hare away once through a gap, as long as they can find their outsides.
On Mo'unga, he played a fair bit of fullback for Canterbury two or three years ago. Couldn't hurt for the ABs to tap into that ability if it helps their bench make up. Oh and by the way, you don't tend to hide poor tacklers at fullback.
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@shark said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?.. Oh and by the way, you don't tend to hide poor tacklers at fullback.
Good point, where do you hide a poor tackler. Look and see where Quade stands I guess.
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@catogrande said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@shark said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?.. Oh and by the way, you don't tend to hide poor tacklers at fullback.
Good point, where do you hide a poor tackler. Look and see where Quade stands I guess.
Beaudy was a turnstile when he started. It's fixable - more about attitude that anything else. BB may not be awesome, but he defends in the right place and has developed his game massively there.
RM should do the same
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@nzzp I'd not seen that of Barrett, he always looked pretty complete to me, goal kicking aside. Mind you we don't get to see a lot of NZ rugby up here unless you really search it out. The internationals for sure and a bit of SR but not much else.
It's fair to say that you guys have been blessed with your options at 10 for some time and, going on the SR final, Mounga looks like to goods too.
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@catogrande said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
It's fair to say that you guys have been blessed with your options at 10 for some time and, going on the SR final, Mounga looks like to goods too.
cheers @Catogrande
they may look the finished product, but there was a lot of debate here in NZ about (initially) his ability to tackle, and (for some time) his ability to drive a team around the park. The 2017 Lions did very well to exploit his weaknesses in Tests 2 and 3 with a really good rush defence. Unlocking that at the top level is pretty important.
Mounga is a real talent, and I'm stoked he's stepping up, but Test rugby is a different game. Same way BLAM isn't even in the conversation, despite being one of the leading try scorers this year
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not sure 'hiding' a 10 at the back is the right way to describe it, in my view when a 10 drops back, often it is more so they can field the kicks and assess options to go forward again as the 10 is usually your 'general' anyway, so they assess options and look to attack or kick for territory, and in both those situations, having your 10 back there to make that decision is usually the best for the team.
As a defender, why would you want a poor defender as your last line of defence? How often is a FB called upon to make a covering tackle, surely you want a good defender there when on defence.
I think it just suits a game plan to have your orchestrator at the back more of then then not.
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@taniwharugby said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
As a defender, why would you want a poor defender as your last line of defence? How often is a FB called upon to make a covering tackle, surely you want a good defender there when on defence.
cough Kurtley Beale cough
