Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play
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OK, that wasn't the sort of analysis I was expecting.
I'm not surprised that England journalists rate those 3 players. I'm not outraged.
I, however, think Moody is the best LH prop in the world at the moment. He's made amazing strides. Not unsurprsing that foreign fans/journos have a lag before they recognise the quality of another nation's player's improvement.
Also, I thought Billy Vunipola was very highly rated up there? and Read isn't tearing it up. Not a player I would want personally as he would not suit the NZ style at all. But I could understand an on paper head-to-head rating him higher.
What about the gaping hole in the NZ lineup at 6? Do England have nothing there? Alright, I'll go and read the original.
Edit. Or not, can't find the article on https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/ -
@rapido said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
@gt12 said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
Three All Blacks behind England counter parts.
Guess before you read, then laugh.
He’s miles off on two of them, and I’m not even sure about the other.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11955386
Here are my guess;
- Goalkicker
- Discipline, yellow cards and growing a cynical reputation with refs (heading for a Lucky Luke style card in a RWC knockout)
- The high ball. DMac looks frail. Ben Smith getting old and Jordie missed a half seasons opportunity of test match development.
Now I'll read it.
waaaaay too much analysis in those thoughts.
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2019 is still very far so I guess a number of young players should emerge during the 2018 and 2019 SR seasons : Jordan, Clarke, Alaimalo, Perofeta, Papali'i or the huge NZ Schools lock whose name I can't remember.
I reckon Sam Lousi could come in contention at lock if he confirms his 2017 form. PT and SB were pretty disappointing during this EOYT. Moli has a big potential but will he be given the opportunity to play LH at the Chiefs ? He should join the Canes where there are no future AB LHP. -
@rapido said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
- Discipline, yellow cards and growing a cynical reputation with refs (heading for a Lucky Luke style card in a RWC knockout)
Or Kaino, or SBW, or Smith which were actual offences in knockout games unlike Unlucky Luke.
As TR said you actually prepared for the test by watching the ABs play - big mistake!
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@cgrant said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
2019 is still very far so I guess a number of young players should emerge during the 2018 and 2019 SR seasons : Jordan, Clarke, Alaimalo, Perofeta, Papali'i or the huge NZ Schools lock whose name I can't remember.
I reckon Sam Lousi could come in contention at lock if he confirms his 2017 form. PT and SB were pretty disappointing during this EOYT. Moli has a big potential but will he be given the opportunity to play LH at the Chiefs ? He should join the Canes where there are no future AB LHP.Moli can push for the utility prop position against Ofa. All he needs is the odd spell at LH to keep in the offer.
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So much love for Akira Ioane! Ardie is already miles ahead of him, and will remain the best bench option.
And Jordie Barrett better learn to tackle. Because I don't like All Blacks who miss as many tackles as he did last season.
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Ardie Savea is a bit shit
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@mariner4life said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
Ardie Savea is a bit shit
He had a down year. But he can get back up. I remember Rodders got dropped and had to work to get back into the ABs for his far more successful second stint
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And Akira Ioane is the absolute bee's knees? Because the original poster went for him.
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@billy-tell said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
2017 is out of the way, and all the top sides will start looking towards 2019. There is probably really only the June internationals 2018 for NH & SH to experiment a bit, it will be full strength for the 2018 6N, and the EOYT 2018 will be used by NZ as a dry run for the RWC knockouts you would think, especially with a match against England on the cards.
So with only 31 players available for a RWC squad, where is NZ at?
1. LH Prop
Moody is a cert. I think Crockett will be gone. Steve Hansen has said the ABs want Atu Moli to switch permanently to LH. And there is Kane Hames. You suspect Moody starting, Hames as squad starting back-up, Moli as bench option is the plan.
3. TH Prop
Franks. Laulala. Tu'angafasi. Franks as the starter. Laulala as the back-up. Ofa as the bench option - should be in prime form by the time we reach 2019.
RWC => Likely only 5 props taken, my pick is Moody, Moli, Franks, Laulala and Tu'angafasi.
2. Hooker
Coles, Taylor and Aumua. Surely Aumua will go past Harris and maybe even Taylor.
RWC => Coles, Taylor, Aumua
4 & 5. Locks
Retallick, Whitelock, and Barrett are certainties for mine. I was quite disappointed in PT's tour. Romano is getting on a bit. Don't think Bird is good enough, and might be heading overseas
RWC => Retallick, Whitelock, Barrett and I'll say Tuipolotu, but there is a room for a new face, or the ABs might go with the 6/emergency lock like they did for 2015
6, 7 & 8. Loose-forwards
Cane, Read are certainties. After that it becomes murky. For back-up 7 Todd has currently overtaken Savea. The selectors seem to favour Squire as the 6, but we have Kaino, Fafita and Ioane in the mix. It could be argued the 2 best 6 options (Vito, Luatua) are overseas.
RWC => Cane, Read, Todd, Ioane, Squire
9. Halfback
Smith, TJP and maybe the Crusaders Drummond. You'd think TKB would start for any other test side, aside from Ireland...
RWC => Smith, TJP, Drummond
10. First-five
I'm just going to say RWC => Barrett starting, Mounga as starting backup, McKenzie as 10/15 supersub
12, 13. Centres
Coaches preferred starting pair is SBW & Crotty. Last RWC squad has 2 more centres, I'd say ALB and either Laumape or Goodhue. It's the joke on here, but if Ngatai has an injury free 2018 and a good season, he is not totally out of the picture.
RWC => SBW, ALB, Crotty, Goodhue or Laumape
11, 14, 15
Who knows? Ioane and Smith would seem certainties. Last RWC we took 4. So I'd say Jordie Barrett and NMS. Of the other options (Naholo, Dagg, Savea, Havili, Tamanivalu, Duffie) it will take something special. Dagg has past form, but he is slower and slower these days.
RWC => Ioane, Smith, Barrett, NMS.
I think we are in a good spot 2 years out - we need to find a settled 6 and a back-up 8, work out who really are the 4 best midfielders, and choose from the usual range of wing/fullback options. There are always newbies, certain positions are asking for a bolter: a 4th lock, 6/8, 3rd halfback strike me as the most likely.
So this was the position back in November. Not a huge amount has changed.
- Moody a cert. A bit open on options for backup after injuries for some contenders
- Aumua out of the running IMO. Selectors have made their bed with Harris and hopefully it will be as third option.
- Think Laulala may go as the starting option unless Franks has a burst into life. He looks on the decline to me.
4/5. As above unless there is a bolter - THE big grey area. Struggling to replace JK let alone have a couple of options
- As above
- Would hope that this will be Read and Akira by the time the Cup rolls around
- TTT has emerged and looks to be solid enough to invest in.
- As above
12/13. As above, although Ngatai is well gone.
11/14/15 Smith, Ioane, JB and a bolter.
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Yeah not much has changed at this point except for Karl T, TTT and Frizzel coming along. The injuries have slowed the advancement of a few guys though unfortunately. The Akira omission looks even more strange when you look at what point of the cycle we are at. Time is running out for him.
In the backs i would think Naholo would be a firm favorite for that last outside back spot. NMS probably lucky to still be there now.
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@mariner4life said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
Ardie Savea is a bit shit
And 6 months on...
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@bones said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
@mariner4life said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
Ardie Savea is a bit shit
And 6 months on...
I think he realises that he has hit his ceiling and the reports that he is looking to go to France next year after the RWC are probably bang on.
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@crucial said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
@billy-tell said in Countdown to RWC 2019 - ABs state of the play:
2017 is out of the way, and all the top sides will start looking towards 2019. There is probably really only the June internationals 2018 for NH & SH to experiment a bit, it will be full strength for the 2018 6N, and the EOYT 2018 will be used by NZ as a dry run for the RWC knockouts you would think, especially with a match against England on the cards.
So with only 31 players available for a RWC squad, where is NZ at?
1. LH Prop
Moody is a cert. I think Crockett will be gone. Steve Hansen has said the ABs want Atu Moli to switch permanently to LH. And there is Kane Hames. You suspect Moody starting, Hames as squad starting back-up, Moli as bench option is the plan.
3. TH Prop
Franks. Laulala. Tu'angafasi. Franks as the starter. Laulala as the back-up. Ofa as the bench option - should be in prime form by the time we reach 2019.
RWC => Likely only 5 props taken, my pick is Moody, Moli, Franks, Laulala and Tu'angafasi.
2. Hooker
Coles, Taylor and Aumua. Surely Aumua will go past Harris and maybe even Taylor.
RWC => Coles, Taylor, Aumua
4 & 5. Locks
Retallick, Whitelock, and Barrett are certainties for mine. I was quite disappointed in PT's tour. Romano is getting on a bit. Don't think Bird is good enough, and might be heading overseas
RWC => Retallick, Whitelock, Barrett and I'll say Tuipolotu, but there is a room for a new face, or the ABs might go with the 6/emergency lock like they did for 2015
6, 7 & 8. Loose-forwards
Cane, Read are certainties. After that it becomes murky. For back-up 7 Todd has currently overtaken Savea. The selectors seem to favour Squire as the 6, but we have Kaino, Fafita and Ioane in the mix. It could be argued the 2 best 6 options (Vito, Luatua) are overseas.
RWC => Cane, Read, Todd, Ioane, Squire
9. Halfback
Smith, TJP and maybe the Crusaders Drummond. You'd think TKB would start for any other test side, aside from Ireland...
RWC => Smith, TJP, Drummond
10. First-five
I'm just going to say RWC => Barrett starting, Mounga as starting backup, McKenzie as 10/15 supersub
12, 13. Centres
Coaches preferred starting pair is SBW & Crotty. Last RWC squad has 2 more centres, I'd say ALB and either Laumape or Goodhue. It's the joke on here, but if Ngatai has an injury free 2018 and a good season, he is not totally out of the picture.
RWC => SBW, ALB, Crotty, Goodhue or Laumape
11, 14, 15
Who knows? Ioane and Smith would seem certainties. Last RWC we took 4. So I'd say Jordie Barrett and NMS. Of the other options (Naholo, Dagg, Savea, Havili, Tamanivalu, Duffie) it will take something special. Dagg has past form, but he is slower and slower these days.
RWC => Ioane, Smith, Barrett, NMS.
I think we are in a good spot 2 years out - we need to find a settled 6 and a back-up 8, work out who really are the 4 best midfielders, and choose from the usual range of wing/fullback options. There are always newbies, certain positions are asking for a bolter: a 4th lock, 6/8, 3rd halfback strike me as the most likely.
So this was the position back in November. Not a huge amount has changed.
- Moody a cert. A bit open on options for backup after injuries for some contenders
2. Aumua out of the running IMO. Selectors have made their bed with Harris and hopefully it will be as third option. - Think Laulala may go as the starting option unless Franks has a burst into life. He looks on the decline to me.
4/5. As above unless there is a bolter - THE big grey area. Struggling to replace JK let alone have a couple of options
- As above
- Would hope that this will be Read and Akira by the time the Cup rolls around
- TTT has emerged and looks to be solid enough to invest in.
- As above
12/13. As above, although Ngatai is well gone.
11/14/15 Smith, Ioane, JB and a bolter.
Aumua has been injured. I bloody well hope he is not out of the running given how poor Harris has been. Given the AB selectors don't generally drop players due to injury I expect him to come back in when fit.
- Moody a cert. A bit open on options for backup after injuries for some contenders
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@no-quarter Although I also hope he's not out of the running, the not-dropping-players-due-to-injury has so far only been applied to incumbents/valuable regulars. Aumua has only had 12 minutes against the Baabaas and 14 minutes against France XV, so that doesn't apply to him. He has also played in only 4 SR games for a total of 77 minutes. To earn an AB spot, I think he'll need to have a great Mitre 10 Cup season. I've no doubt he can do that (if fit). Can't wait for him to push Harris and Coltman out of the 16 jersey or out of the squad, but he'll need to prove again why he should be considered.
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My attempt at a 31 man RWC squad and makeup. With in the right columns a player either very unlucky (e.g. Laumape) or close to the likely 3rd choice (e.g. Coltman v Harris etc) or no stand out 3rd choice and perhaps a future looking coaching cartel who weren't retiring en-masse after the tournament might pick a youngster if no outstanding 3rd choice (E.g. Aumua or TTT).
Jumping the gun posting this yet, as after the weekend will know so much more. But I'm not going to let go waste my little excel doc I create from myself to muddle through my preferred split .....
I've gone a 14/17 split.
I don't have Fifita even in my second column. I also don't have Squire or L Whitelock, but 6 is still the gaping hole 2 years on from when the gaping hole opened. I actually have 3 and 1/2 opensides as the 6s are just so un-compelling. I'm open to replacing Todd if Frizell takes his chance, or maybe even with safe Luke. Soft-power value of Todd's recent Japanese experience is swaying me a bit.
I don't have an unlucky 4th first-five (very thin here).
I also don't have Reece in my squad, maybe he should be in the second column of the unluckies, but I rate Ennor very highly anyway. I also would have doubts if he is even in the country in 4 years time to build on any experience he might gain from going as a non-starter- so would be a potential waste of a spot IMO.
