Blues v Sharks
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@chester-draws said in Blues v Sharks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Blues v Sharks:
There's no shortage of talent in that squad. Seems that brains and leadership are in chronically short supply though. A halfdecent 10 would also be nice.
There is no half decent 10. They need to actually learn to just deal with that.
Now what a high school coach would do is play a steady hand at 10 and move all the plays out one or short side (to your ace winger, maybe?). Or play a fullback like DMac.
But the Blues coaches insist on trying to play an ace running 10 because other franchises do. So they take punts on the "next big thing" instead of moving heaven and earth to get a Tom Taylor who was being shafted by his own province and was going to kick goals and not stuff up.
This is one huge advantage of making coaches earn their stripes in lower grades. They get their heads out of the way top quality rugby "should" be played and see the game afresh.
It's not that school teachers make better coaches it's that years of coaching schoolboy rugby opens you up to other ways of doing things. You are forced to make do.
Silly thing is, Auckland had Grant Fox -- the least running 10 in the history of the game -- and smoked opposition with him running the show.
I'm aware there hasn't been a decent 10 which is why I said it would be nice for the Blues to have one. It seems to me theyve had more than a few steady hands at 10.
As mentioned, the biggest problem is a crippling lack of brains and leadership.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Blues v Sharks:
@chester-draws said in Blues v Sharks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Blues v Sharks:
There's no shortage of talent in that squad. Seems that brains and leadership are in chronically short supply though. A halfdecent 10 would also be nice.
There is no half decent 10. They need to actually learn to just deal with that.
Now what a high school coach would do is play a steady hand at 10 and move all the plays out one or short side (to your ace winger, maybe?). Or play a fullback like DMac.
But the Blues coaches insist on trying to play an ace running 10 because other franchises do. So they take punts on the "next big thing" instead of moving heaven and earth to get a Tom Taylor who was being shafted by his own province and was going to kick goals and not stuff up.
This is one huge advantage of making coaches earn their stripes in lower grades. They get their heads out of the way top quality rugby "should" be played and see the game afresh.
It's not that school teachers make better coaches it's that years of coaching schoolboy rugby opens you up to other ways of doing things. You are forced to make do.
Silly thing is, Auckland had Grant Fox -- the least running 10 in the history of the game -- and smoked opposition with him running the show.
I'm aware there hasn't been a decent 10 which is why I said it would be nice for the Blues to have one. It seems to me theyve had more than a few steady hands at 10.
As mentioned, the biggest problem is a crippling lack of brains and leadership.
Particularly at five-eighth...
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Actually, I thought Francis went OK. Better than the current crop. They could have built with him.
But you misunderstand anyway. It's not that they have to play those guys. They need to change what they expect them to do. You can't play Francis and expect him to be Carlos Spencer.
But they looked at him after season, didn't see the Carlos magic, so ditched him. People saw Francis, went "plodder", and he was gone because NZ coaches and fans refuse to accept that not every first five has to be a genius.
And so it will go on, until either they get lucky and some kid survives playing with a team designed to smash any confidence in a first five, or they get a coach that moves on and stops trying to always find the next Carlos.
The Blues have been "rebuilding" for a decade. They need to stop it, because it isn't working, and just work with what they have.
However Tana has to go. He's apparently incapable of thinking that way. So all the chopping and changing gets worse rather than better.
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@antipodean I would think a Waratahs fans would be a bit more quiet on this thread. If you want to talk about resources and under-achievement...
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@mariner4life said in Blues v Sharks:
@antipodean I would think a Waratahs fans would be a bit more quiet on this thread. If you want to talk about resources and under-achievement...
I could point to the newly formed Brumbies stealing all our future Wallabies. Then having to support the ARU and the useless, slow witted northern neighbours through the expansion of Australian rugby.
Quite frankly it's a wonder we've done as well as we have.
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@antipodean said in Blues v Sharks:
@mariner4life said in Blues v Sharks:
@antipodean I would think a Waratahs fans would be a bit more quiet on this thread. If you want to talk about resources and under-achievement...
I could point to the newly formed Brumbies stealing all our future Wallabies. Then having to support the ARU and the useless, slow witted northern neighbours through the expansion of Australian rugby.
Quite frankly it's a wonder we've done as well as we have.
are you running Warner's PR? Because that's the worst attempt at a sob story i have ever heard.
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@mariner4life said in Blues v Sharks:
@antipodean said in Blues v Sharks:
@mariner4life said in Blues v Sharks:
@antipodean I would think a Waratahs fans would be a bit more quiet on this thread. If you want to talk about resources and under-achievement...
I could point to the newly formed Brumbies stealing all our future Wallabies. Then having to support the ARU and the useless, slow witted northern neighbours through the expansion of Australian rugby.
Quite frankly it's a wonder we've done as well as we have.
are you running Warner's PR? Because that's the worst attempt at a sob story i have ever heard.
I'd start with a slow panning shot of a rusting, quiet Concord Oval bathed in early sunlight mist. Que voice over of crippling debt and interspersed footage of legends stolen not just by other clubs, but league. Add to that an enveloping darkness from across the pond to scare the kids...
Painting Warner as a erudite genius driven to succeed for the greater glory of all Australians and misguided role model for his children, defender of the virtue and honour of his childhood sweetheart would be a piece of piss.
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@chester-draws Perofeta plays 1 bad game and all of a sudden the Blues want every 10 to be Carlos? I don't buy it. The Blues brought in Gatland and Black this year who both play nothing like Carlos or have been asked to play like Carlos.
They weren't expecting Francis to be Carlos - Francis to me was much better suited to 12 rather than 10 and left to take up an opportunity to play for England - I don't think staying in NZ was an option for Francis when that chance became available.
The issue with West was that he couldn't control a game from 10 - his field punting especially was weak and for the most part he didn't have anyone to take the pressure off in this regard - I'm not really sure what this has to do with Carlos - West is best suited to a bench impact role (which he excelled at last season for the Blues) as the game generally has opened up and he is able to use his running game more. See the one game West started for the Canes this season at 10 - a very poor performance.
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@antipodean don't forget the eroding of the importance of the Shute Shield, just to get the blazers* really frothing.
*actually, from what i can see, the uniform of the average 'tahs supporter is jeans, brown leather shoes, a checked shirt, sports coat and scarf.
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@mariner4life They're called RM Williams mate. Required if you have to walk on nature strips to get to the Range Rover.
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Perofeta should not be discarded so quickly. He was very good for the U20's but he is only a kid, and by definition still learning his trade. Unfortunately he doesn't have the luxury of settling in with an older more experienced head to guide him around the track. I think he should be cut some slack. As others have said, there are far more senior players that should be standing up at this stage.
But, it is all about confidence. And the Blues are severely lacking in this area. I do find it wierd that senior players - some are WC winners ffs - with all the experience (Kaino, Patty T, Parsons. Pulu) can't pull the team together and then most frustatingly, all collectively seem to have mini brain explosions at critical stages in a match. Basic skills seem to be lacking - a real bug bear of mine, falling off tackles is just not acceptable.
Recruitment is such a crucial part of SR these days, Tana and his team have shown a real weakness here. As Chester Draws has said, players the calibre of Tom Taylor (who has been ripping it up for Pau) would have been a great acquisition for the Blues and would have helped further Perofeta's cause.
On West, he has excelled for the Canes this season in a bench role - where he is best suited. A perfect foil for Barrett, and exactly what the Canes need in the latter stages of a game. -
So much talk about Perofeta but he was only playing to a god awful gameplan, same as Faiane when he also put in those two kicks rather than keeping the ball in hand. Which is why so many have serious reservations about Umaga as coach.
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@kiwimurph said in Blues v Sharks:
@chester-draws Perofeta plays 1 bad game and all of a sudden the Blues want every 10 to be Carlos? I don't buy it. The Blues brought in Gatland and Black this year who both play nothing like Carlos or have been asked to play like Carlos.
We'll see. I pick that both will be judged wanting -- because they don't create a threat the way that is expected -- and a new set of poor bastards will be given the job in a year or two. Rinse and repeat.
When I say play "like Carlos" I mean offer a running threat and give a sense of excitement to the attack, not playing exactly like Carlos did (since that would be more or less impossible).
It will partly depend on whether the board come to their senses or not. But this is the group that bought Benji Marshall, for goodness sake, which was a "Carlos" pick. And wanted Ihaia West, tempted again by his "highlight reel" running, and ignored his obvious weaknesses. They lost Gareth Anscombe, apparently not good enough for the high standard the Blues expect (but OK for a championship with the Chiefs).
(Also I haven't seen a lot of Gatland, but what I have doesn't do much more me. I just think he was a poor pick. However, changing him for "anyone else" is not a solution.)
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Solution for the Blues?
Complete clear out of the fish heads, swiftly followed by coach plus players not willing to die for the cause. -
@shadowtrooper said in Blues v Sharks:
Solution for the Blues?
Complete clear out of the fish heads, swiftly followed by coach plus players not willing to die for the cause.Great in theory, but one of the real issues is that modern players have options. You get the same money wherever you play in NZ, and generally more money offshore. If you tackle it that way, you need to have someone really credible to work through the transformation, and it would be painful.
That said, I'm with you on the first part - the adminsitration side needs a major overhaul, starting with the board. It's frustrating to see some of the high level decisions taken, with no accountability.
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@chester-draws said in Blues v Sharks:
@kiwimurph said in Blues v Sharks:
@chester-draws They lost Gareth Anscombe, apparently not good enough for the high standard the Blues expect (but OK for a championship with the Chiefs).
Anscombe doesn't fit your narrative, he was a fullback at the Chiefs and the 10 running the show was closer to Carlos than the examples your giving here.
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@nepia said in Blues v Sharks:
@chester-draws said in Blues v Sharks:
@kiwimurph said in Blues v Sharks:
@chester-draws They lost Gareth Anscombe, apparently not good enough for the high standard the Blues expect (but OK for a championship with the Chiefs).
Anscombe doesn't fit your narrative, he was a fullback at the Chiefs and the 10 running the show was closer to Carlos than the examples your giving here.
He was a 10 who was only good when he stood flat and took on the line. Standing deep and shovelling it on works in the NH, but not at Super level. Also, he was a bit of a midget from memory.
That said, he basically won a game for us in SA, but that was one fo the few times he ran the ball occasionally
