Cycling/ Cheating etc
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@chester-draws
I'm well aware it was an open secret. I just wondered if he ever blew positive. -
A few times, although avoiding the tests was his main MO, especially later on. He was taking too much to merely mask it.
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It amazes me how many athsmatics have been able to dominate one of the most gruelling sports in the world. Fair play.
Sweeping generaisation - they are all at it. We know it, they know it, and they are guilty until proven guilty.
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One of my best mates is an asthmatic, and he was always the fittest fecker of us all, hated using his inhaler and tried to use it as little as possible, he could hold his breath for an age swimming underwater too.
He always pushed himself to be as good as he could without it's use.
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I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats? I can understand that he was a big name and hid it for years, but when they show infographics of some years where basically all the top 5 when he won have at different times been caught cheating isn't it time to just say he's not the bad apple, he's just the biggest name of all the apples and be done with it.
I don't get the sport, I don't have a problem with people loving it but it just seems a bit broken to me. Is there a cyclist out there who hasn't been looked at suspiciously in their career?
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@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats? I can understand that he was a big name and hid it for years, but when they show infographics of some years where basically all the top 5 when he won have at different times been caught cheating isn't it time to just say he's not the bad apple, he's just the biggest name of all the apples and be done with it.
I don't get the sport, I don't have a problem with people loving it but it just seems a bit broken to me. Is there a cyclist out there who hasn't been looked at suspiciously in their career?
With Armstrong it wasn't simply the cheating though. He was always suss, but his attitude, the well documented battle with cancer and accompanying book and the way he abused the people around him contributed towards the hate he is now getting. With the way Team Sky and Froome have been bigging up heir own clean credentials, i would assume that if found guilty they will cop a lot of the same. And (if guilty) so they should.
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@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats? I can understand that he was a big name and hid it for years, but when they show infographics of some years where basically all the top 5 when he won have at different times been caught cheating isn't it time to just say he's not the bad apple, he's just the biggest name of all the apples and be done with it.
I don't get the sport, I don't have a problem with people loving it but it just seems a bit broken to me. Is there a cyclist out there who hasn't been looked at suspiciously in their career?
I don’t think he is mate, just amongst a certain section that hate the American cyclists in general.
He’s an absolute legend in my eyes, one of the toughest guys to ever jump on the bike.... and the bunch of guys I ride with on the weekends would agree.
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@sammyc said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats? I can understand that he was a big name and hid it for years, but when they show infographics of some years where basically all the top 5 when he won have at different times been caught cheating isn't it time to just say he's not the bad apple, he's just the biggest name of all the apples and be done with it.
I don't get the sport, I don't have a problem with people loving it but it just seems a bit broken to me. Is there a cyclist out there who hasn't been looked at suspiciously in their career?
I don’t think he is mate, just amongst a certain section that hate the American cyclists in general.
He’s an absolute legend in my eyes, one of the toughest guys to ever jump on the bike.... and the bunch of guys I ride with on the weekends would agree.
Did someone say dickhead?
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@crucial said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@sammyc said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats? I can understand that he was a big name and hid it for years, but when they show infographics of some years where basically all the top 5 when he won have at different times been caught cheating isn't it time to just say he's not the bad apple, he's just the biggest name of all the apples and be done with it.
I don't get the sport, I don't have a problem with people loving it but it just seems a bit broken to me. Is there a cyclist out there who hasn't been looked at suspiciously in their career?
I don’t think he is mate, just amongst a certain section that hate the American cyclists in general.
He’s an absolute legend in my eyes, one of the toughest guys to ever jump on the bike.... and the bunch of guys I ride with on the weekends would agree.
Did someone say dickhead?
This is one of those posts where it's just too risky to 'like'
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@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats?
I'd wager it was because of his holier than thou attitude, the contempt and nastiness he displayed when others told the truth - he literally set out to ruin their lives. Then there would be the people who did believe and feel utterly betrayed.
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@crucial said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@sammyc said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats? I can understand that he was a big name and hid it for years, but when they show infographics of some years where basically all the top 5 when he won have at different times been caught cheating isn't it time to just say he's not the bad apple, he's just the biggest name of all the apples and be done with it.
I don't get the sport, I don't have a problem with people loving it but it just seems a bit broken to me. Is there a cyclist out there who hasn't been looked at suspiciously in their career?
I don’t think he is mate, just amongst a certain section that hate the American cyclists in general.
He’s an absolute legend in my eyes, one of the toughest guys to ever jump on the bike.... and the bunch of guys I ride with on the weekends would agree.
Did someone say dickhead?
Most cyclists are dickheads, I’m not sure what your point is?
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@antipodean said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats?
I'd wager it was because of his holier than thou attitude, the contempt and nastiness he displayed when others told the truth - he literally set out to ruin their lives. Then there would be the people who did believe and feel utterly betrayed.
This is it. If someone took him on, over absolutely anything, he would make it is pleasure to hunt them down and ruin them. He was a vindictive cnut.
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Not quite sure why this showed up in my newsfeed, but who's surprised?
Bradley Wiggins and Team Sky accused in damning drugs report
Report suggests Team Sky riders took performance-enhancing drugs to win Tour de France
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A new development. Is the Team Sky/ British cycling House of Cards about to come tumbling down.
Richard Freeman: Ex-Team Sky and British Cycling doctor charged with ordering testosterone for an athlete
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/46870091
Analysis
BBC sports editor Dan RoanBritish Cycling has endured plenty of controversies in recent years, but this has the potential to be the most damaging yet.
UK Anti-Doping will be monitoring next month's GMC tribunal closely, and depending on the evidence and outcome, could reopen their investigation into British Cycling and Team Sky, which they closed 14 months ago.
But at a time when the future of Team Sky is shrouded in uncertainty after the withdrawal of its principal backer, this case has already cast another shadow over a sport that has delivered so much glory for Britain over the last decade.
The fact that the GMC has seen fit to charge a man who was the sport's most senior doctor with ordering a banned performance-enhancing drug to dope a rider - and then lying to cover it up - means yet more negative headlines and suspicion in a sport desperately trying to restore faith.
Privately, British Cycling claims it has seen no evidence to support the sensational allegation that a competitor was helped to cheat, but it must now hope that Dr Freeman can prove that the testosterone was intended for a member of staff, and not a rider.
And that he does not reveal anything else that does any more damage to the sport's credibility.
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@sparky I'm reading Freeman's book at the moment. At the risk of taking a naive view, I must say he does not come across as dodgy or unethical at all. He talks at length about the whole Jiffy bag situation and provides a sound, rational and lawful argument in my view.
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@scribe said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@sparky I'm reading Freeman's book at the moment. At the risk of taking a naive view, I must say he does not come across as dodgy or unethical at all. He talks at length about the whole Jiffy bag situation and provides a sound, rational and lawful argument in my view.
Is the book as believable or convincing as Armstrong's books? They did a lot to convince people that he must be clean.
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@nzzp They have entirely different characters. I think a large number of people had made up their mind either way about Armstrong before his books were published – his somewhat overpowering presence polarised people and the books did little to change that.
Freeman comes across as studious and conscientious, viewing people as patients first rather than elite athletes. He talks a lot about specific case studies (not only in cycling but in football where he first started with Sam Allardyce at Bolton) and how and why athletes were treated the way they were.
He also talks about the so called marginal gains philosophy that Team Sky followed, albeit from a clinical sense ( what did and didn’t work and what lessons the amateur athlete can apply from this).
It’s a fascinating read – The Line: Where Medicine and Sport Collide . Dr Richard Freeman.
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@scribe the trouble in the public eye is that he/Team Sky/Brailsford came across with zero credibility at the UKAD enquiries. They prevaricated, delayed, gave non answers, had convenient memory lapses in areas where other details were remembered with clarity, 'lost' records etc etc. The list of excuses around a lack of evidence supporting their position was pretty unbelievable considering the supposed professional environment they were trying to portray.
If you were in his position and a supplier 'accidently' sent you something as explosive as testosterone surely you would take steps to record and report everything about the situation to cover your arse.
They all just come across as dodgy. -
Heh. If something's too good to be true, it's probably not true.
Britain had no major GC contenders for decades. Then Sky win major tour after major tour with a series of British cyclists. Plus having some great sprinters.
Something major has changed. Marginal gains doesn't propel you that far.
