Cycling/ Cheating etc
-
@sammyc said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats? I can understand that he was a big name and hid it for years, but when they show infographics of some years where basically all the top 5 when he won have at different times been caught cheating isn't it time to just say he's not the bad apple, he's just the biggest name of all the apples and be done with it.
I don't get the sport, I don't have a problem with people loving it but it just seems a bit broken to me. Is there a cyclist out there who hasn't been looked at suspiciously in their career?
I don’t think he is mate, just amongst a certain section that hate the American cyclists in general.
He’s an absolute legend in my eyes, one of the toughest guys to ever jump on the bike.... and the bunch of guys I ride with on the weekends would agree.
Did someone say dickhead?
-
@crucial said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@sammyc said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats? I can understand that he was a big name and hid it for years, but when they show infographics of some years where basically all the top 5 when he won have at different times been caught cheating isn't it time to just say he's not the bad apple, he's just the biggest name of all the apples and be done with it.
I don't get the sport, I don't have a problem with people loving it but it just seems a bit broken to me. Is there a cyclist out there who hasn't been looked at suspiciously in their career?
I don’t think he is mate, just amongst a certain section that hate the American cyclists in general.
He’s an absolute legend in my eyes, one of the toughest guys to ever jump on the bike.... and the bunch of guys I ride with on the weekends would agree.
Did someone say dickhead?
This is one of those posts where it's just too risky to 'like'
-
@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats?
I'd wager it was because of his holier than thou attitude, the contempt and nastiness he displayed when others told the truth - he literally set out to ruin their lives. Then there would be the people who did believe and feel utterly betrayed.
-
@crucial said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@sammyc said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats? I can understand that he was a big name and hid it for years, but when they show infographics of some years where basically all the top 5 when he won have at different times been caught cheating isn't it time to just say he's not the bad apple, he's just the biggest name of all the apples and be done with it.
I don't get the sport, I don't have a problem with people loving it but it just seems a bit broken to me. Is there a cyclist out there who hasn't been looked at suspiciously in their career?
I don’t think he is mate, just amongst a certain section that hate the American cyclists in general.
He’s an absolute legend in my eyes, one of the toughest guys to ever jump on the bike.... and the bunch of guys I ride with on the weekends would agree.
Did someone say dickhead?
Most cyclists are dickheads, I’m not sure what your point is?
-
@antipodean said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@nepia said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
I may have asked this before, but why is Armstrong so universally loathed amongst cycling fans when pretty much all the big names in the sport have been cheats?
I'd wager it was because of his holier than thou attitude, the contempt and nastiness he displayed when others told the truth - he literally set out to ruin their lives. Then there would be the people who did believe and feel utterly betrayed.
This is it. If someone took him on, over absolutely anything, he would make it is pleasure to hunt them down and ruin them. He was a vindictive cnut.
-
Not quite sure why this showed up in my newsfeed, but who's surprised?
Bradley Wiggins and Team Sky accused in damning drugs report
Report suggests Team Sky riders took performance-enhancing drugs to win Tour de France
-
A new development. Is the Team Sky/ British cycling House of Cards about to come tumbling down.
Richard Freeman: Ex-Team Sky and British Cycling doctor charged with ordering testosterone for an athlete
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/46870091
Analysis
BBC sports editor Dan RoanBritish Cycling has endured plenty of controversies in recent years, but this has the potential to be the most damaging yet.
UK Anti-Doping will be monitoring next month's GMC tribunal closely, and depending on the evidence and outcome, could reopen their investigation into British Cycling and Team Sky, which they closed 14 months ago.
But at a time when the future of Team Sky is shrouded in uncertainty after the withdrawal of its principal backer, this case has already cast another shadow over a sport that has delivered so much glory for Britain over the last decade.
The fact that the GMC has seen fit to charge a man who was the sport's most senior doctor with ordering a banned performance-enhancing drug to dope a rider - and then lying to cover it up - means yet more negative headlines and suspicion in a sport desperately trying to restore faith.
Privately, British Cycling claims it has seen no evidence to support the sensational allegation that a competitor was helped to cheat, but it must now hope that Dr Freeman can prove that the testosterone was intended for a member of staff, and not a rider.
And that he does not reveal anything else that does any more damage to the sport's credibility.
-
@sparky I'm reading Freeman's book at the moment. At the risk of taking a naive view, I must say he does not come across as dodgy or unethical at all. He talks at length about the whole Jiffy bag situation and provides a sound, rational and lawful argument in my view.
-
@scribe said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@sparky I'm reading Freeman's book at the moment. At the risk of taking a naive view, I must say he does not come across as dodgy or unethical at all. He talks at length about the whole Jiffy bag situation and provides a sound, rational and lawful argument in my view.
Is the book as believable or convincing as Armstrong's books? They did a lot to convince people that he must be clean.
-
@nzzp They have entirely different characters. I think a large number of people had made up their mind either way about Armstrong before his books were published – his somewhat overpowering presence polarised people and the books did little to change that.
Freeman comes across as studious and conscientious, viewing people as patients first rather than elite athletes. He talks a lot about specific case studies (not only in cycling but in football where he first started with Sam Allardyce at Bolton) and how and why athletes were treated the way they were.
He also talks about the so called marginal gains philosophy that Team Sky followed, albeit from a clinical sense ( what did and didn’t work and what lessons the amateur athlete can apply from this).
It’s a fascinating read – The Line: Where Medicine and Sport Collide . Dr Richard Freeman.
-
@scribe the trouble in the public eye is that he/Team Sky/Brailsford came across with zero credibility at the UKAD enquiries. They prevaricated, delayed, gave non answers, had convenient memory lapses in areas where other details were remembered with clarity, 'lost' records etc etc. The list of excuses around a lack of evidence supporting their position was pretty unbelievable considering the supposed professional environment they were trying to portray.
If you were in his position and a supplier 'accidently' sent you something as explosive as testosterone surely you would take steps to record and report everything about the situation to cover your arse.
They all just come across as dodgy. -
Heh. If something's too good to be true, it's probably not true.
Britain had no major GC contenders for decades. Then Sky win major tour after major tour with a series of British cyclists. Plus having some great sprinters.
Something major has changed. Marginal gains doesn't propel you that far.
-
@Chester-Draws You’re right. Something major has changed. Team Sky have by a long, long way, the biggest budget of any team. This allows them to sign the best riders. Many of the super domestiques that they take to a Grand Tour would be the team leader on any other team.
They are paid handsomely to get Froome etc to the top of the podium. They win GT’s because they’ve got the strongest team. With Sprinters, they’ve tended to buy in riders for the short term, already at or v near the top of their game (Cavendish, Viviani). Although sprinting success is almost a sideshow as the main focus is on performance in the 3 Grand Tours. If you look at the current composition of the riding roster, they’ve signed the majority of the bright new things coming into the pro scene now to give themselves the best chance of continuing that Grand Tour legacy.
It’s not just the riders. The budget allows them to have the best support network which includes coaches. Tim Kerrison for example has almost revolutionised the way riders train. Shane Sutton and Rod Ellingworth orchestrated the GB success on the track at a series of Olympic Games and this has transferred across to the road.
-
@scribe said in Cycling/ Cheating etc:
@sparky I'm reading Freeman's book at the moment. At the risk of taking a naive view, I must say he does not come across as dodgy or unethical at all. He talks at length about the whole Jiffy bag situation and provides a sound, rational and lawful argument in my view.
what's his explanation for having the most 'professional' team that cyclings ever seen medical records being on a single laptop and not backed up ANYWHERE???
-
anyway why you guys blabbing on about Sky when Paddy Bloody Bevins tearing up the Tour Down Under.
This finish is the best ever performance by a kiwi on the world stage as far as i'm concerned - blasted the worlds top sprinters winning yesterday and he's paying $4.50 to win the race which i suggest he will defo do as he can climb!
It's always stuck in my mind the time he turned up in Auckland at a crit when he was about 17.. at the time the guy i was doing leadouts for was unstoppable and won every race with ease. I was on Paddys wheel out of the last corner - in 2 pedal strokes he opened about a 5m gap and was gonneeee. won by about 50m. Had grown up racing against Julz Dean who went on to become one of hte best lead out guys - and always thought farrrk if Julz can get there where can Paddy get to cause he has pure speed.
He went overseas and to race in the US domestically but struggled a lot with homesickness and never really performed - so taken him a long time to make it on the world stage.
He's kinda NZ's Peter Sagan - he can climb pretty damn well and obviously in the last couple of years he's been smashing the TT's with i think an 8th at the last worlds which is just awesome.
Anyway he should hang on to win - TDU is usually decided by less than 5secs he's got 15.. if he gets through today his odds will shorten .. 10km to go today and he's still there (and one of the favs).. 10 sec time bonus on the line..
get yer telly on now gonna be farking GOOD
-
4.5KM to go and he's still hanging in.. last climb to go.. he's holding on against some of the biggest names in the sport!
and George Bennett there as well!
this is BRUTAL!
-
he's survived the attacks on the climbs and still there! sitting on Sagans wheel.. 1km to go!
this is epic!
-
Sagan wins.. Bevin in 5th just got a bit far back in final corner. just waiting to see what the GC looks like
-
@WillieTheWaiter I just happened to be watching that without your prompting!
I'm surprised at the quality of the field - lots of pretty big names appearing - not the likes of Froome, Dumoulin and Thomas - but the next level down - Porte, Bennett, Pozzovivo, Poels, etc.
I think Patrick's now got just a second over Sagan, several others with various time bonuses a bit further back - and there's about 30 riders who haven't picked up any bonuses that are 15 seconds back.
A couple of little climbs to come that might break up the field a bit - but no real reason that Bevan can't hang on. The Wirri-something hill on the last stage likely to be the decider - I've seen them climb that a couple of times in other years and Richie Porte seems to have it mastered - So Bevan's challenge will be not to hand many seconds back to anyone in shouting range - and of course, to somehow keep his nose in front of Sagan in the meantime.
The bloody heat might be as much of a factor as any hills!
