How are the ABs tracking for the RC?
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Firstly, I would like Kaino to put his hand up and say, he won't make it to RWC2019 and be the force he was in the past. And like Tana retire after the RC.
Third HB? dunno Pulu most likely, Drummond? those Crusader 9's? (combination with Read)
Third first-five? Geez we're light here ain't we? I think everyone needs to accept DMac, is one of those kids who looks good at Super stuff, but that step up to test match is too much. Too physical, too much. Now if he became a 9/10 hybrid that would make the bench interesting...
Third hooker? Lisa Lewis... nah Harris/Coltman got that one covered
Third prop? pass
Beaudy to keep kicking. He'll get better.
Marty schmarty. Gooone.
Bench? Crockett, Taylor, a prop., Savea, a 6/8 or Scotty B. Perenara, Sopoaga, mix n' match between ALB/Laumape/Ioane/J.Barrett. - I firmly believe in the last 10 tests the selectors have realised in games against tougher forward packs, they'll take genuine lock cover in to the test. i.e. vs Lions, Ireland, England, maybe Argentina & South Africa, vs everyone else they won't or don't need to. that Ireland game in Chicago taught them lots I hope they never forget.
I think they may consider Sopoaga able to cover 10/15 (or maybe 10/12) where does he play for the Highlanders if him and Banks are on? They won't (or shouldn't move Beaudy from 10 anymore in the tight ones. Its dumb) So then the bench mix gets interested because theres no place for Jordie if he doesn't start and isn't playing 15 (assuming Sopoaga can) - Are we assuming Ioane is first choice 11 now? BFA first choice 14 or 15? and then Dagg/Naholo at 14 depending on opposition.
Tuipulotu = victim of own stupidity, needs a big Mitre 10. If he'd been on-song it would've been interesting to see him go head to head with Itoje. -
@ACT-Crusader said in How are the ABs tracking for the RC?:
This might not be the thread, but the thought did cross my mind during the first Lions test, I wonder what the plan is with Kaino. How long does he have? When will the transition come (to Akira, Squire)? How will he go out? A Lions test series was probably the last of the accomplishments for him at test level.
He's still playing at a really high level. Sadly we need to prepare for his retirement and succession now while there's still two years out from RWC 2019
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Genuine question. Why is it that people think players like Cruden or DMac should start playing halfback? I haven't played a lot of rugby in my time but surely the skillsets are far too different in the modern game. I'm short and skinny so at school initially I was pushed to halfback right up until they realised I couldn't run, pass etc then they burried me at hooker where I could just stay out of the way. It seems to me a little bit of old school 'well he's short so he must be a halfback'
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@westcoastie said in How are the ABs tracking for the RC?:
Firstly, I would like Kaino to put his hand up and say, he won't make it to RWC2019 and be the force he was in the past. And like Tana retire after the RC.
Why? He's still our best 6. Even in this day of RWC cycles if we can't integrate players in at any time then we're going to have issues.
Arguably Tana should have hung around ....
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@Nepia I agree hes playing well and TBH theres no other NZ 6 convincingly pushing him for his test jersey however, my opinion is that 2019 feels likely to be a bridge too far and he won't have the same impact that we require of him - go out with a bang in the RC.
And yes I think Tana should've played on - have to wonder if he feels that was the right decision in hindsight. -
@Rembrandt I base my case on DMac considering 9 on the following:
Hes been shown up as too small for international rugby against the tough sides. In the physical stakes Jordie has passed him.
Hes coming from a long way back in the 10 stakes, Beaudy, Sopoaga, Mouanga and then possibly Black, Jordie and this years U20 first-five, even Bryn Gatland all on a par or ahead.
Didn't they consider him as a 9 replacement on one of the EOYT games last year?
Nothing to do with size, but then his size does relate to elusive running, capable passing, another kicking option.I just think if he wants to have AB potential into the future, then the versatility of a 9/10 on the bench brings an interesting mix to proceedings - we could have a 6/2 bench split for example if circumstance dictates it.
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@westcoastie BBBT was 37 at the 2011 RWC, so I wouldn't write off Kaino just yet.
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@westcoastie Good points. I see an issue however where he seems to be a player who thrives on space, at 10 he has less and he has been found out, halfback would be even worse and lacking a physicality could run the risk of being regularly monstered. I can kind of see a natural 9 moving into 10 but for some reason not a 10 moving into 9. Anyone know of any examples where this has been a success?
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Matt Giteau!!!
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I wonder if our RC opponents have been taking notes the last 3 weeks?
We struggled with the Lions' game plan. Their unadventurous play (not meant as an insult) didn't provide much in the way of turnover ball to attack with. Their kick chase didn't give us broken field opportunities, and their rush defense didn't allow us to get around them. We really struggled to create points. Yes, we made ground through the middle, but it was hard work, and not likely to result in a lot of tries. They also disrupted our usually rock solid lineout (you can argue the merits of the how, but it worked).
The Africans appear to be trying to open up their game, while the Aussies don't have the type of player to pull it off. That seems to point to a style of game we are much happier playing.
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@mariner4life the Lions play requires alot of disipline as well, which we saw them struggle in test #2 v 14 when they were getting pinged, not sure the Saffas or Aussies can maintain that for the sustained periods as the Lions did for the most part (even if they shoulda been punished more)
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@akan004 BBBT also hadn't played interational rugby in the rough & tough abrasive nature JK has since 2006. 12 seasons worth by 2019 (subtracted one for the time off in Japan)
BBBT also wasn't first choice for a lot of that. Yes he played NRL, but not quite the same high-tempo stuff is it?
But BBBT may prove to be the exception rather than the rule - equally I could point out the quick drop-off for Rodney and Jerry... -
@Rembrandt Weepu, Giteau, Preston.
For comparison.
Aaron Smith 1.71m, 83kg
TJ Perenara 1.84m, 94kg
Tawera Kerr-Barlow 1.87m, 89kg
Brad Weber 1.72m, 75kg
Damian MacKenzie 1.77m, 78kg
Jon Preston 1.76m, 77kgI'm just suggesting hes on the peripheral unless a. injuries b. try a different position.
He'd also be elusive close in & near the ruck. -
@westcoastie said in How are the ABs tracking for the RC?:
@Rembrandt I base my case on DMac considering 9 on the following:
Hes been shown up as too small for international rugby against the tough sides. In the physical stakes Jordie has passed him.
Hes coming from a long way back in the 10 stakes, Beaudy, Sopoaga, Mouanga and then possibly Black, Jordie and this years U20 first-five, even Bryn Gatland all on a par or ahead.
Didn't they consider him as a 9 replacement on one of the EOYT games last year?
Nothing to do with size, but then his size does relate to elusive running, capable passing, another kicking option.I just think if he wants to have AB potential into the future, then the versatility of a 9/10 on the bench brings an interesting mix to proceedings - we could have a 6/2 bench split for example if circumstance dictates it.
I've always thought DMac plays his best rugby from FB where he can orchestrate proceedings. He thrives with runners coming off him, and still tends to have that individualistic flair which doesn't always suit a 10. As he is so nippy HB for the ABs would be an interesting prospect = and certainly Versatility with a capital V as we have seen v the Lions has been desperately sought. I think that is what may keep Shag and co interested in him.
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@westcoastie said in How are the ABs tracking for the RC?:
@akan004 BBBT also hadn't played interational rugby in the rough & tough abrasive nature JK has since 2006. 12 seasons worth by 2019 (subtracted one for the time off in Japan)
BBBT also wasn't first choice for a lot of that. Yes he played NRL, but not quite the same high-tempo stuff is it?
But BBBT may prove to be the exception rather than the rule - equally I could point out the quick drop-off for Rodney and Jerry...JK never played ORIGIN. NRL is a lot more high tempo than Rugby imo, and it's just as abrasive. Look at all the shoulder charges that used to be legal.
BBBT's fitness was right up there with the best of them, and his time with the Broncos/Qld contributed to that. -
@westcoastie from what I read, Collins fall was more around losing that 1/4 final which took its toll on him mentally, it hit him so hard, whereas Rodders was run into the ground and then made to keep going by Cooper, so no wonder the guy fell off a cliff like he did.
