Hurricanes v B&I Lions
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@Wreck-Diver said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
The internet would have gone into melt down, Gatland would have really would have shat himself at the press conference, the AB's would have been blamed for global warming if George Ayoub had said no under the new directives that's a red card for Henderson.
Mainly because it isn't. The directives are that a spear tackle is deemed to have been made it is a red card and work back from that. Thus giving the refs some leeway in determining the sanction. Henderson lifted him just over the horizontal, did not take him up high, tried to manage the descent (didn't completely though) and the guy landed on his shoulder.
Poite and the team got this just about spot on.
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@pakman said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
Didn't manage to watch whole game, but it would appear YC was the point where Lions blew a near certain victory.
It certainly happened during that time but not solely due to the YC. There were some poor decisions and application of basic skills that contributed as well.
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@Catogrande That maybe so but George Ayoub is a serial offender for fucking up.
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@Wreck-Diver Ah, sorry. I misinterpreted your post. You're are correct. He is.
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@Catogrande said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Wreck-Diver said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
The internet would have gone into melt down, Gatland would have really would have shat himself at the press conference, the AB's would have been blamed for global warming if George Ayoub had said no under the new directives that's a red card for Henderson.
Mainly because it isn't. The directives are that a spear tackle is deemed to have been made it is a red card and work back from that. Thus giving the refs some leeway in determining the sanction. Henderson lifted him just over the horizontal, did not take him up high, tried to manage the descent (didn't completely though) and the guy landed on his shoulder.
Poite and the team got this just about spot on.
Should clarify something though, as certainly the UK comms team were talking out of there collective arses (especially when they still moan about the BOD incident). 'managing the descent'only comes into effect if you manage it in a way that the player lands safely. Landing on your shoulder is not landing safely.
Also the players hand down to break his fall is 'removed'. i.e. if he stops himself from landing on his head then the sanction is as if he did land on his head.BTW 'just over the horizontal'? He was only not completely vertical because he was bracing himself with his arm.
It was an accident just like the BODs one. Difference is that since people had such a big cry over that some clear directives have been brought in to deal with accidents like this. Just like accidental high contact or accidental taking out a player in the air.
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@Crucial said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
It was an accident just like the BODs one. Difference is that since people had such a big cry over that some clear directives have been brought in to deal with accidents like this. Just like accidental high contact or accidental taking out a player in the air.
Are those directives that clear though? From what I heard of the discussion between Poite & Ayoub... Poite was totally cool with it after watching the replays on big screen. Ayoub had to push him into changing his mind, something like "Are you really sure you're happy with how he landed?"
Combined with being a dick about that first try, Ayoub was a mouthy little fucker today, wasn't he? But mostly got the calls right. -
@Kruse said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
It was an accident just like the BODs one. Difference is that since people had such a big cry over that some clear directives have been brought in to deal with accidents like this. Just like accidental high contact or accidental taking out a player in the air.
Are those directives that clear though? From what I heard of the discussion between Poite & Ayoub... Poite was totally cool with it after watching the replays on big screen. Ayoub had to push him into changing his mind, something like "Are you really sure you're happy with how he landed?"
Combined with being a dick about that first try, Ayoub was a mouthy little fucker today, wasn't he? But mostly got the calls right.Ayoub got that right though. Poite nearly didn't.
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@Kruse said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
It was an accident just like the BODs one. Difference is that since people had such a big cry over that some clear directives have been brought in to deal with accidents like this. Just like accidental high contact or accidental taking out a player in the air.
Are those directives that clear though? From what I heard of the discussion between Poite & Ayoub... Poite was totally cool with it after watching the replays on big screen. Ayoub had to push him into changing his mind, something like "Are you really sure you're happy with how he landed?"
Combined with being a dick about that first try, Ayoub was a mouthy little fucker today, wasn't he? But mostly got the calls right.Watch again. Poite and the ARs hadn't seen the shot where JB landed on his shoulder. He clearly says that back to Ayoub afterwards.
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@MiketheSnow said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Crucial said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
Gatland has admitted that the backlash he received over the geographical replacements was why he didn't use the bench.
Talk like a clown, act like a clown......
Bigger mistake to not use them, than select them.
good write up on it from the42
Murray Kinsella reports from Wellington
LOOKING DOWN AT the Lions’ replacements bench at Westpac Stadium, it was impossible not to feel sorry for Tomas Francis, Gareth Davies, Finn Russell, Cory Hill, Kristian Dacey and Allan Dell.
We could argue until the cows come home whether the sextet – dubbed the ‘geography six’ after being called up to the Lions squad based on their geographical proximity – should have even been in New Zealand at all, but surely the sensible move was to give them a genuine shot.With the Lions tiring against the Hurricanes, even more so after Iain Henderson’s yellow card stretched them, reinforcements were needed. 14 points were conceded in the 10 minutes of that sin binning, eating up the lead the Lions had held.
And all the while, these Lions replacements sat slumped on the bench. Protect the Test 23? What about giving them a lift by beating the Hurricanes four days out from the second clash with the All Blacks.
Topping it all off was a quite farcical scene in which prop Francis pulled off his tracksuit and readied himself to come onto the pitch in the very closing minutes.
Starting tighthead Dan Cole even began jogging towards the touchline in the 78th minute after referee Romain Poite had informed him he was being replaced, only for the Frenchman to say, “No, no, no – stay on” a second later.
Then just after the hooter had gone following a Hurricanes choke tackle two minutes later and before the final scrum of the game, Francis was again seemingly ready to win his first Lions cap for a matter of seconds, only to be held back again.
Poite walked towards the touchline with his arms spread out in confusion, his body language echoing what everyone else was thinking – ‘What the hell is going on here?’
Francis, of course, didn’t get on and the bizarre scene was an entirely fitting end to what has been a divisive and damaging saga for the Lions ‘brand’.Whatever about one’s opinion on the actual value of having these six additional players added midway through the tour to protect the Test 23 – and certainly one can make a very good case for it – the handling of the affair has been a complete mess.
To be fair, it was all the way back in September that Warren Gatland highlighted that the Lions might bring in additional players for the final two midweek games.
But it wasn’t mentioned publicly by the Lions once in the meantime, nor were any members of the media informed of the plans in order to get the message out along a different channel, reminding people that there would be additional players brought in.
So it was that All Blacks coach Steve Hansen was able to ‘reveal’ the plans before most Lions fans were even aware of the possibility, and certainly before the Lions had brought the issue up again themselves.
Suddenly, it seemed that Hansen had insider knowledge on what the Lions were planning and he was able to drive the narrative of a split being created in the tourists’ camp, a theme that has continued ever since and clearly irked Gatland.
The Lions were quick to state that the six players would be leaving the squad after the Hurricanes fixture, but few expected that they would not play at all unless absolutely necessary – as was the case for Dell and Russell’s fleeting appearances.
Dell got a handful of minutes off the bench when Joe Marler was in the sin bin against the Chiefs and helped win a scrum penalty, while Russell played for five minutes against the Canes with Dan Biggar getting a HIA.29-times capped Russell must have felt he could have made an impact against a rather loose Hurricanes team if given a chance in the second half, while Hill, Dacey, Dell and Francis would have backed themselves to add work rate as the Lions battled to hold their lead.
Instead, Joe Marler, Rory Best and Dan Cole put in an 80-minute shift in the front row – an absolute rarity at the top level of the sport – while Test 23 candidates Iain Henderson and George Kruis finished out the game, Courtney Lawes having played 54 minutes.
Gareth Davies, meanwhile, was perhaps the best scrum-half in the Guinness Pro12 this season, so there was little reason not to trust him and he might even have improved the Lions’ performance given that Greig Laidlaw was not at his best again.
Wing George North played most of the game at inside centre after Robbie Henshaw’s shoulder injury, while Leigh Halfpenny – himself a late bench replacement for Jared Payne – played 60 minutes after being involved in the first Test.
Bizarrely, it transpires that Gatland and his coaching staff had decided not to cap these players unless necessary due to the furore over their initial call-ups.
A head coach who has so seldom been swayed by public opinion admitting to changing his mind after some social media outrage and questioning of his decision-making from people who have no real knowledge of the demands of his job?
That didn’t feel right.
And even if that was the case, that the Lions were influenced by public opinion, it wasn’t the right thing to admit. Gatland’s position must be one of conviction and All Blacks boss Steve Hansen will have enjoyed hearing that the Lions head coach made a decision based on other people’s opinions.Stuck in the middle of the whole mess are the six players, all of whom will surely now leave the Lions squad questioning what they got out of the experience.
Training with some of the best players in the world is valuable, but at the end of an already long season these men were criticised openly and then didn’t even get a chance to show those critics what they can do.
It would be fascinating to eventually hear an honest take on events from one of the six players’ points of view, but from the outside looking in, the entire affair has been handled farcically. -
Spot on.
Gatland should have 'lived by the sword, died by the sword'
Tipuric would have done a better job at 9, let alone Davies.
Gatland bottled it.
Will he bottle the big decisions for the 2nd Test?
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@reprobate Ha! had to review it. Not good positioning from Poite but not any real impact.
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@Catogrande only seen it once, but on that viewing i thought if he's not there the defender hits the attacker a metre further out and without any pace up...
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@reprobate I had to look at it again and I'l stick with my first assessment
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@cgrant said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
Very entertaining game of footy. I am sure the Canes would have won with ease if Goodes, Coles, Fatialofa, A. Savea, Perenara, B. Barrett and Proctor had been available.
Yeah it's a shame when there are some first stringers missing
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I couldn't understand why the Lions pine-riders were kept sitting down. It's not like they are British guys they found throwing a ball around in the park, they are part if international squads. After all the Canes brought on a 9 who hasn't even played NPC yet .....
Good game that one, not so much for classic play as for end to end incident.
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That was fun!
Pity Canes couldn't nick it. How cheaty were the Lions for a good portion of the game: immobile at the tackle, no gap in the lineout, throwing or kicking away the ball after every penalty.
I could have sworn Henderson deliberately and maliciously targeted Barrett in a pre-ordained spear tackle, and I will still be whinging about it at every opportunity in the next 12 years.
Henderson was immense though for the Lions, easily their best player.
For the Canes: Jordie Barrett in the 2nd 40 - AB written all over him! Reads space well, finds his man, can play all along the backline, can kick goals. Laumape was pure physicality, he has potential. The Canes backrow was decent too.
