Western Force v Hurricanes
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@Bones said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
Enjoy the rest next week Hoffman. Those yellow cards were rubbish.
But hold on apparently its only Blues fans that complain about the reffing?
Hoffman has been consistently bad for a long time. See the Tahs-Sharks game from a couple of years back for a woeful reffing performance by Hoffman.
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@KiwiMurph said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
@Bones said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
Enjoy the rest next week Hoffman. Those yellow cards were rubbish.
But hold on apparently its only Blues fans that complain about the reffing?
Who said that? I don't see canes fans blaming the ref for how off they were in the first half...
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@Bones For someone who repeatedly comments about others criticising referees, you've made about 4 posts criticising the referee in this thread.
I actually think the standard of refereeing is an overlooked aspect of this expanded competition. With so many games someone has to ref them and similarly to the way the talent has diluted amongst the playing groups the same could be said for refereeing. Back in the days of Super 12 or 14 the likes of Hoffman and Van Heerden probably dont make the cut in terms of regularly reffing games in the middle.
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@Stargazer said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
If the Canes don't win this with a bonus point, the Saders are guaranteed the top spot in the NZ conference, regardless of the result of the Canes v Saders game.
If teams are equal on points the most wins ends up top
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@Winger said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
If the Canes don't win this with a bonus point, the Saders are guaranteed the top spot in the NZ conference, regardless of the result of the Canes v Saders game.
If teams are equal on points the most wins ends up top
Yes, so basically, the Crusaders have already won the NZ conference regardless of what happens next.
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Yes the Crusaders can't be overtaken in the NZ conference. Even if they lose their one remaining game and the Hurricanes win both of their with BPs they will finish tied on points so the Crusaders will finish ahead based on having more wins. But the Crusaders need to beat the Hurricanes in Wellington, or hope the Sharks beat the Lions in Durban, if they are to finish first overall. And I suspect that will be their goal. Who would have thought that a team needed to go 15-0 to guarantee the overall top spot.
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@Cantab79 It will be really interesting to see how good the Lions really are (or aren't), when they finally have to play Kiwi teams. We can all speculate that they have not really been tested because they haven't played our teams, but we'll only know for sure when they actually do.
Based on the current points table, the Highlanders would be the first Kiwi team to test them.
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Watching the highlights. Was about to pop in to express my amazement at the TMO getting decision right (re: DHP late tackle), then they took another 5 looks at it ....
Oh my word. Someone remove this curse from the sport.
Wow. That can go into the text book of How TMOs ruin sport.
Take heaps of looks at it, but at least come to right decision after stopping the game for a minute. Then TMO says no, take another look. Spend another minute taking heaps of looks at it, and then get it wrong.
It's a contact sport, it's not played in slo-mo.
Can we bring in 'on report' and leave it to the judiciary. Can we bring in in-goal touch judges and totally remove TMOs, totally remove them. Not even for groundings.
They don't improve decision making. I'd rather watch fast real time refing mistakes than really slow TMO train wreaks.
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@Cantab79 said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
Yes the Crusaders can't be overtaken in the NZ conference. Even if they lose their one remaining game and the Hurricanes win both of their with BPs they will finish tied on points so the Crusaders will finish ahead based on having more wins. But the Crusaders need to beat the Hurricanes in Wellington, or hope the Sharks beat the Lions in Durban, if they are to finish first overall. And I suspect that will be their goal. Who would have thought that a team needed to go 15-0 to guarantee the overall top spot.
The Crusaders could lose by 7 or less, in which case they could finish equal with the Lions, but yeah, best to win to eliminate the various options.
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@Rapido said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
Watching the highlights. Was about to pop in to express my amazement at the TMO getting decision right (re: DHP late tackle), then they took another 5 looks at it ....
Oh my word. Someone remove this curse from the sport.
Wow. That can go into the text book of How TMOs ruin sport.
Take heaps of looks at it, but at least come to right decision after stopping the game for a minute. Then TMO says no, take another look. Spend another minute taking heaps of looks at it, and then get it wrong.
It's a contact sport, it's not played in slo-mo.
Can we bring in 'on report' and leave it to the judiciary. Can we bring in in-goal touch judges and totally remove TMOs, totally remove them. Not even for groundings.
They don't improve decision making. I'd rather watch fast real time refing mistakes than really slow TMO train wreaks.
Removing the TMO is a terrible idea. You need the person making the decision to be the same person who controls the cameras. The referee can already over rule the TMO if they want. To say that the TMO doesn't improve decision making is absurd. There are a couple of examples every weekend where the TMO gets a call right which a referee couldn't possible get correct. This is the 21st century. Games are analysed immediately and live TV can be paused.
If you want to trash the TMO for making a bad call (when they get heaps correct) you should actually make sure you have an example of a bad call. DHP used his shoulder so it is a yellow card regardless of whether it is late. Clear cut decision.
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@Godder said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
@Cantab79 said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
Yes the Crusaders can't be overtaken in the NZ conference. Even if they lose their one remaining game and the Hurricanes win both of their with BPs they will finish tied on points so the Crusaders will finish ahead based on having more wins. But the Crusaders need to beat the Hurricanes in Wellington, or hope the Sharks beat the Lions in Durban, if they are to finish first overall. And I suspect that will be their goal. Who would have thought that a team needed to go 15-0 to guarantee the overall top spot.
The Crusaders could lose by 7 or less, in which case they could finish equal with the Lions, but yeah, best to win to eliminate the various options.
Incorrect. The Lions still have to play 2 games. If the Crusaders lose with a bonus point, they'll have 64 points. If the Lions win at least one of their remaining games with a bonus point and also win the other, they'll have 65 points.
The Lions still have to play the Sunwolves at home and the Sharks away.
Edit: it's unfortunate that the Sharks and Lions already know the result of the Canes v Saders game when they play. I'm not into conspiracy theories, but this leaves room for influencing the final standings ...
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@Stargazer while a juicy conspiracy is always good, but will that affect the Sharks final placing?
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@taniwharugby said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer while a juicy conspiracy is always good, but will that affect the Sharks final placing?
That depends on the results of the other NZ games. At least in theory, they can still overtake both the Highlanders and the Chiefs at this stage.
However, and more importantly, if the Sharks finish 8th, they will have an interest in the Lions finishing first, because then the Sharks don't have to travel to Chch and will play the Lions again in the QF.
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@Stargazer interesting...bit of a double edged sword though for them...let the Lions come onto thier turf and beat them, or try to beat them, possibly go to NZ or at least head away to beat the Lions knowing you just beat them...kinda like when the Lions chose to rest players for the last RR match, which they almost won, which ultimately lead to more travel
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@taniwharugby Conspiracy scenario if the Sharks finish 8th and the Crusaders lose to the Canes: if the Sharks throw their last game and hand the Lions the (bonus point) win, they'll travel to Johannesburg for the QF. If they beat the Lions, they'll travel to Chch. Considering the Sharks have more chance of beating the Lions in Jo'burg than the Saders in Chch, dishonest Sharks players/coaches etc could be tempted to intentionally lose that round 17 game to the Lions ...
If it was not so impractical/impossible due to the time difference, Sanzaar should schedule all last round games at the same time (like in the Top 14), to prevent this situation.
The only way to avoid this situation is hoping that the Sunwolves miraculously beat the Lions and/or the Crusaders beat the Canes.
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@Stargazer still, letting them winmhands a psychological advatange as well, either way Sharks are fucked
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@Stargazer said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
@Godder said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
@Cantab79 said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
Yes the Crusaders can't be overtaken in the NZ conference. Even if they lose their one remaining game and the Hurricanes win both of their with BPs they will finish tied on points so the Crusaders will finish ahead based on having more wins. But the Crusaders need to beat the Hurricanes in Wellington, or hope the Sharks beat the Lions in Durban, if they are to finish first overall. And I suspect that will be their goal. Who would have thought that a team needed to go 15-0 to guarantee the overall top spot.
The Crusaders could lose by 7 or less, in which case they could finish equal with the Lions, but yeah, best to win to eliminate the various options.
Incorrect. The Lions still have to play 2 games. If the Crusaders lose with a bonus point, they'll have 64 points. If the Lions win at least one of their remaining games with a bonus point and also win the other, they'll have 65 points.
The Lions still have to play the Sunwolves at home and the Sharks away.
Edit: it's unfortunate that the Sharks and Lions already know the result of the Canes v Saders game when they play. I'm not into conspiracy theories, but this leaves room for influencing the final standings ...
There was nothing incorrect about my post - nowhere does it say that a 7 point loss to the Hurricanes guarantees finishing top of the table, just that that's the minimum required.
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@hydro11 said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
@Rapido said in Western Force v Hurricanes:
Watching the highlights. Was about to pop in to express my amazement at the TMO getting decision right (re: DHP late tackle), then they took another 5 looks at it ....
Oh my word. Someone remove this curse from the sport.
Wow. That can go into the text book of How TMOs ruin sport.
Take heaps of looks at it, but at least come to right decision after stopping the game for a minute. Then TMO says no, take another look. Spend another minute taking heaps of looks at it, and then get it wrong.
It's a contact sport, it's not played in slo-mo.
Can we bring in 'on report' and leave it to the judiciary. Can we bring in in-goal touch judges and totally remove TMOs, totally remove them. Not even for groundings.
They don't improve decision making. I'd rather watch fast real time refing mistakes than really slow TMO train wreaks.
Removing the TMO is a terrible idea. You need the person making the decision to be the same person who controls the cameras. The referee can already over rule the TMO if they want. To say that the TMO doesn't improve decision making is absurd. There are a couple of examples every weekend where the TMO gets a call right which a referee couldn't possible get correct. This is the 21st century. Games are analysed immediately and live TV can be paused.
If you want to trash the TMO for making a bad call (when they get heaps correct) you should actually make sure you have an example of a bad call. DHP used his shoulder so it is a yellow card regardless of whether it is late. Clear cut decision.
Really. When they go to a TMO and it is even slightly difficult do you have any more faith than a 50/50 chsnde theyll get it right?
The ones they get right are the easy ones the refs were too pussy to call without assistance. If this option was removed, they'd just make the call. Like the touchie yesterday who put his flag up for in touch then said actually nah go upstairs. His first instinct was right.
