Crusaders v Hurricanes
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@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@kev said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 I think you underestimate the Crusaders backs. Win by 30 🤣
We won by 25 last year with less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Not unreasonable.
We probably aren't going to get forward dominance against the Crusaders but we need to do better than tonight to compete.
Who gives a fuck about last year??
wierd conversation
I'm saying that a very similar Hurricanes team beat a very similar Crusaders team by 25 points last year having had less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Therefore I'm saying that if we had the same forward dominance the Crusaders had tonight, we would have won by thirty. I think results which happened last year are a decent predictor of what can happen this year.
I don't expect the Hurricanes to dominate the Crusaders in the forwards because the Crusaders are far better man for man. I tipped the Crusaders to win, after all.
You're kidding right? New in the Crusaders backline since last year: Hall (2nd half), Bridge, Goodhue, Tamanivalu, Mataele, Hunt (not sure whether these last two players even came on the field). Only left from last year: Drummond (1st half), Mo'unga, Crotty and Havili.
Add a mostly new coaching staff.
Last year's Crusaders backline couldn't defend. This year's backline clearly can.
Fair enough. It's still a lot easy to defend when the other team isn't getting quality ball
Ahh fuck it...umm ...denying the opposition quality ball is what good defence is
it's not a 'luck' thing, you earn it
Denying the other team quality ball is mostly due to the forward pack being dominant (which I have been talking about for the past ten posts). It is a lot easier to play a rush defence if the ball is slow. I don't know how anyone could read my posts and think that I have not acknowledged how good the Crusaders forwards were or that they were lucky. My post was in response to a post mentioning how much the Crusaders backline has changed and denying the opposition quality ball is more a responsibility of a forward pack and not the backline.
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@Crucial said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@No-Quarter said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
NMS, Coles, Fats and Proctor - we don't have any cover for them which is the problem so their injuries are hurting us. As good as Whitelock is having two AB locks to cover him is a nice luxary.
NMS and Proctor would have made very little difference. Also and the wings hardly saw the ball. Coles is obviously a loss and Fats possibly would have been better than an underdone Fifita.
Proctor would have made a bit of a difference. Aso's defence was terrible again tonight. We were just lucky the Crusaders didn't exploit it.
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@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@kev said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 I think you underestimate the Crusaders backs. Win by 30 🤣
We won by 25 last year with less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Not unreasonable.
We probably aren't going to get forward dominance against the Crusaders but we need to do better than tonight to compete.
Who gives a fuck about last year??
wierd conversation
I'm saying that a very similar Hurricanes team beat a very similar Crusaders team by 25 points last year having had less forward dominance than the Crusaders had tonight. Therefore I'm saying that if we had the same forward dominance the Crusaders had tonight, we would have won by thirty. I think results which happened last year are a decent predictor of what can happen this year.
I don't expect the Hurricanes to dominate the Crusaders in the forwards because the Crusaders are far better man for man. I tipped the Crusaders to win, after all.
You're kidding right? New in the Crusaders backline since last year: Hall (2nd half), Bridge, Goodhue, Tamanivalu, Mataele, Hunt (not sure whether these last two players even came on the field). Only left from last year: Drummond (1st half), Mo'unga, Crotty and Havili.
Add a mostly new coaching staff.
Last year's Crusaders backline couldn't defend. This year's backline clearly can.
Fair enough. It's still a lot easy to defend when the other team isn't getting quality ball
Ahh fuck it...umm ...denying the opposition quality ball is what good defence is
it's not a 'luck' thing, you earn it
Denying the other team quality ball is mostly due to the forward pack being dominant (which I have been talking about for the past ten posts). It is a lot easier to play a rush defence if the ball is slow. I don't know how anyone could read my posts and think that I have not acknowledged how good the Crusaders forwards were or that they were lucky. My post was in response to a post mentioning how much the Crusaders backline has changed and denying the opposition quality ball is more a responsibility of a forward pack and not the backline.
nah. you blew it when you said the Hurricanes "probably" would have won by thirty (that's at least 5 tries! - in a game where only 1 was scored!!).
Your words
no coming back from that nonsense mate
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@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Crucial said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@No-Quarter said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
NMS, Coles, Fats and Proctor - we don't have any cover for them which is the problem so their injuries are hurting us. As good as Whitelock is having two AB locks to cover him is a nice luxary.
NMS and Proctor would have made very little difference. Also and the wings hardly saw the ball. Coles is obviously a loss and Fats possibly would have been better than an underdone Fifita.
Proctor would have made a bit of a difference. Aso's defence was terrible again tonight. We were just lucky the Crusaders didn't exploit it.
So if the Crusaders didn't exploit it how would someone else have made a difference?
That's an odd statement.The canes are an extremely effective and exciting team when they get parity and above in the forwards. So far the teams that have dominated them in that aspect have nullified or put massive pressure on their game.
In part it is through marginal offside rushing but that is the advantage you get when you are stronger at set piece and breakdowns. The visuals for the refs are such that the marginal offsides (where you have a foot in front to get that split second break) never get called as they aren't clear and obvious due to the offside line moving. -
@Canerbry said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Yep Mo'unga bested Barrett. The same Mo'unga who Laumape repeatedly made his bitch. Switch flyhalves in that game and the Saders win by 20+.
Switch Laumape for Crotty and the Canes win, there's a straaaaawmaaaaaaan waiting in the sky.
That is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on this site. You're a special one that's for sure.
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@booboo said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
We were completely reamed in the forwards, our backs were shut down by the rush defence and we only lost by eight points. That is the upside. If we had the forward dominance then we probably would have won by thirty. How to get the forward dominance against that pack is the big question. We have done it before though.
Get better forwards ...
That Saders tight five... faaaarking!
and the way they used Strange. Pretty much didn't change from the calls they would have for Barrett.
Razor has a fair share of "strange fecker" about him, but there's no doubt he's got those crusader fluffybunnies (and they are) all firing together. He's made a mockery of the South African fatigue syndrome and sans Read and Whitelock factors that we all thought might come back to bite in the last 10-15 minutes.
He appears to be a cracking good coach!
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With regard to Razor ...
.. that hair do is the Twenty-tweenies equivalent of the comb over.
... you're 42 ... nearly 43 ... Razor. Accept your age and that you're middle aged. It's cooler to look like you realise that than try and look 23 ...
Good coaching though...
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Just got back from the game, best seats ever thanks to a supplier, I was 5 seats away from the coaching box. Great atmosphere in a full house, even the nice old syrups in the diamond platinum seats around us were getting a little rowdy, and full credit to the team from Move Logistics for the piss.
Canes looked jumped-up and nervous before the game, I wasn't very confident going in, it looked as if they were going to be able to channel the energy into focused aggression on the field. Nup, they were brittle.
Tore up a little while the horses were on.
I was almost resigned to being there while Beaudy tore us a new one, looking forward to seeing it in a way, so yeah disappointed there. All this talk of the Crusaders targeting him, I reckon it was just good defense.
Canes had all the turnover ball and he got plenty of space, took some pretty soft options an didn't execute. Hence the points win for Mo'unga, out Beaudened Beauden tonight which deserves to be noted.
Otherhoo: Matt Todd and Ryan Crotty are deadset legends. Haven't seen any replays of what actually happened and stuff but Yarpo Piper was pulling it out of his ass in the second half. Ardie Savea will get banned for a very long time if he gets caught pinning a player to the ground and punching after the tackle again, he did it twice tonight. We got into the niggle too though, got under their skins a bit by the looks... I get moist over our scrum.
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I really thought the Canes had improved their scrum this season. Obviously not.
Scrums confuse the hack out of me. The Canes dominated the Tahs scrum, and the Tahs held their own against the Crusaders scrum, yet the Canes were on roller skates tonight. Who knows what happens in there...
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Also just back from the game, best atmosphere in years at the ground. Robertson has really brought the fans back.
Best game in 4 years! Pubs were full before and after. And the passion is back.
Can you guys stop talking riccitali up as an option for the abs? Looked like a shrimp out there against a real forward pack.
Jordie Barrett got smashed every time he hit then ball up and copped a bit off the ball, definitely rattled him too.
Crotty and Todd are 2 crusaders legends. Todd was far superior to lightweight savea and derserves a proper stint in the Abs
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@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Not much to add to what has already been said. IMO Crotty had a massive game; he was everywhere. Definitely deserves that AB starting spot.
I hope Scott Barrett's injury isn't too bad; not just for the Saders, but also for the ABs. At least, next week, the Crusaders will have Sam Whitelock back.
Taufua gave away too many penalties, but apart from that he had a great game tonight. Tireless.
Watching the Crusaders play tonight, you wouldn't say they had just returned from SA.
The Hurricanes may have been relying on the Barretts' kicking game too much. Once you shut that down, a big part of their game is gone.
I hope Riccitelli's injury isn't too serious; you wouldn't want Apisai as your starting hooker and a newbie on the bench. Aumua is with the NZU20s ... Unsure who they'd pick.
I agree with the comments about Jane. If you wouldn't know who he was, you'd say - after watching this game - that he's a pretty average SR player. Maybe time to retire ...?
I think Jane has something to offer still. I think he is a better player than Goosen or Umaga-Jensen at this stage.
From the looks of Goosen I'd say Jonah Lowe is better player too - just comes from the wrong province in the Canes region.
What happened to Goosen, he looked bloody good when he first came on to the first class scene but he seems to have regressed.
Anyway, bloody good win to the Crusaders, I actually thought pre-game the Canes would touch them up due to the fact the Crusaders have had a fairly easy run of teams so far but they shut down the Canes pretty easily.
I haven't seen the Crusaders fans so bolshy on the Fern since about 2008.
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@SammyC said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Can you guys stop talking riccitali up as an option for the abs? Looked like a shrimp out there against a real forward pack.
This is a point I was going to make. Riccitelli looked lightweight in this game, he was falling off tackles and didn't make much ground as a ball carrier. A good learning curve for him.
I thought Ardie was the pick of the Canes forwards, the stupidity on Hall aside. He plays a different game to Todd and still appeals as the ideal impact sub for the ABs.
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Missed Marshall in the Comms box last night. He's excellent at explaining the backline set ups , off the screen, and where the space is (well, mostly only from set pieces).
With Barrett / kickpases. Had Crusaders countered this with a wide wing defensive positioning? What about you guys at the stadium?
As the kickpass is a counter to a compressed defence anyway. I'm very interested, as the canes passing was so diabolical - I'm wondering if there was a spread defence there waiting to be attacked in a more orthodox manner? If the hurricanes backs weren't passing like Romanian backs.
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Ricchitelli just didn't look like he wanted to be out there. In fact the entire team other than TJP seemed completely flat. It was weird.
Btw Crotty has to be a lock for the Lions. I think he's up for a big series.
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@SammyC said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Also just back from the game, best atmosphere in years at the ground. Robertson has really brought the fans back.
Best game in 4 years! Pubs were full before and after. And the passion is back.
Can you guys stop talking riccitali up as an option for the abs? Looked like a shrimp out there against a real forward pack.
Jordie Barrett got smashed every time he hit then ball up and copped a bit off the ball, definitely rattled him too.
Crotty and Todd are 2 crusaders legends. Todd was far superior to lightweight savea and derserves a proper stint in the Abs
Hey hey now....I get that you're excited but don't be hating on human skyscraper Savea.
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@hydro11 said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Proctor would have made a bit of a difference. Aso's defence was terrible again tonight. We were just lucky the Crusaders didn't exploit it.
They did. He hurtled out of the line and left a four-lane highway the Crusaders ran down.
The smart money was always on the Crusaders; they have the much better pack.
