How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?
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@gollum said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
We still have a big wait to see how many of the Lions fail to make the first test, let alone the 2nd & 3rd. Its an utter carcrash of a tour & I'd be amazed if they are anywhere near full strength by about halftime in the Maori game. I thought before it was a strong possiblity we would lose the first test, but after that we should be fine for the next 2 as the lions start Cipriani, Jamie Roberts & Thomas Waldrom in the 2nd & 3rd
I think the car crash schedule thing has been a bit overdone. And lost its meaning.
It's a car crash in that they are playing teams capable of beating them.
It's not a car crash in that these poor meek gentle tourists will get physically bashed up before the series starts.
The attrition is because they've just finished their own stupidly structured attritional season. Not because they've got a 5 week tour instead of the normal 3 week June international window series.
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@Rapido said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@gollum said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
We still have a big wait to see how many of the Lions fail to make the first test, let alone the 2nd & 3rd. Its an utter carcrash of a tour & I'd be amazed if they are anywhere near full strength by about halftime in the Maori game. I thought before it was a strong possiblity we would lose the first test, but after that we should be fine for the next 2 as the lions start Cipriani, Jamie Roberts & Thomas Waldrom in the 2nd & 3rd
I think the car crash schedule thing has been a bit overdone. And lost its meaning.
It's a car crash in that they are playing teams capable of beating them.
It's not a car crash in that these poor meek gentle tourists will get physically bashed up before the series starts.
The attrition is because they've just finished their own stupidly structured attritional season. Not because they've got a 5 week tour instead of the normal 3 week June international window series.
Mate, the tour schedule is pretty full on. They're playing two games a week against pretty much top opposition - each game. Most of the best provincial sides in the world and oh three games against the world champions and no 1 (by a a fair margin) international team. Car crash is a bit emotive, but that is one tough tour.
Your point about our crazy domestic season is well founded. it is nuts. It is also part of the reason the Lions tour is so short, but is still one tough itinerary
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@Catogrande said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Rapido said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@gollum said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
We still have a big wait to see how many of the Lions fail to make the first test, let alone the 2nd & 3rd. Its an utter carcrash of a tour & I'd be amazed if they are anywhere near full strength by about halftime in the Maori game. I thought before it was a strong possiblity we would lose the first test, but after that we should be fine for the next 2 as the lions start Cipriani, Jamie Roberts & Thomas Waldrom in the 2nd & 3rd
I think the car crash schedule thing has been a bit overdone. And lost its meaning.
It's a car crash in that they are playing teams capable of beating them.
It's not a car crash in that these poor meek gentle tourists will get physically bashed up before the series starts.
The attrition is because they've just finished their own stupidly structured attritional season. Not because they've got a 5 week tour instead of the normal 3 week June international window series.
Mate, the tour schedule is pretty full on. They're playing two games a week against pretty much top opposition - each game. Most of the best provincial sides in the world and oh three games against the world champions and no 1 (by a a fair margin) international team. Car crash is a bit emotive, but that is one tough tour.
Your point about our crazy domestic season is well founded. it is nuts. It is also part of the reason the Lions tour is so short, but is still one tough itinerary
I don't think you can ignore the fact that the only limitations on the BIL squad is what they place on themselves. They have the resources of 4 top level international sides to draw on so finding fit and fresh players should not be an issue.
There is no requirement for a great number of players to play twice a week. Weekly games are the norm during a tour (eg a Grand Slam) and with deep reserve benches now playing time can be managed.
Also add in the fact that both the Blues and Chiefs games are likely to be against weakened sides and the "toughness" doesn't look so bad -
@Crucial I take your point in comparing this tour to many others but... tell me of a harder itinerary available today. Sure a couple of the super sides may not be at full strength, but with the possible exception of the first game the Lions play a Super side on Saturday and midweek, the Maori and three games v the ABs. All in five weeks. Yeah we have the resources of four international sides but they can still only take so many players. No other international side would face such a schedule.
This is not a complaint, or a get your excuses in early type of thing (might come in useful mind) but just a statement of fact. Touring SA or Australia there is simply not that depth of quality - there are always a few "easy" games. Touring NZ in previous times there would be games v some of the provinces which were not as arduous. Not so this time. Nevertheless, this is where we are and it is up to us to cope with it and hopefully get some sort of result.
No, I am not confident.
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I'm not saying it's not going to be hard, as in technically difficult to score points then their opposition both weekend and midweek. It will be their hardest ever.
It's the assumption/assertion that everyone's going to get injured ,because it's a tough tour of NZ, that I have a problem with.
NPC coaches play a 5 week 10 game comp every season now. It's not impossible for (just some) of these poor widdle pros to play 20 mins off the bench in a midweek match. This isn't a dig at the Lions/NH. I just reckon fans have become accustomed to no midweek games and assume it's too tough. But this is a squad specifically big enough for this exact thing.
I'm not sure how it will go as it all depends on how quickly they gel, otherwise I reckon they might ace it.
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Its a tough tour ,
But i also think its a pretty strong squad of players the lions have put together ,
How they handle it will be interesting ,
I really do think its how they gel that will determine how well they go
We almost know beforehand the overall standard of the NZ sides ,
But the Lions come with a bit of a question mark
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@Catogrande said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Crucial I take your point in comparing this tour to many others but... tell me of a harder itinerary available today. Sure a couple of the super sides may not be at full strength, but with the possible exception of the first game the Lions play a Super side on Saturday and midweek, the Maori and three games v the ABs. All in five weeks. Yeah we have the resources of four international sides but they can still only take so many players. No other international side would face such a schedule.
This is not a complaint, or a get your excuses in early type of thing (might come in useful mind) but just a statement of fact. Touring SA or Australia there is simply not that depth of quality - there are always a few "easy" games. Touring NZ in previous times there would be games v some of the provinces which were not as arduous. Not so this time. Nevertheless, this is where we are and it is up to us to cope with it and hopefully get some sort of result.
No, I am not confident.
The point I was making was that it isn't necessarily the same guys running out on Saturday as on Wednesday and the few that might will likely be rotated off the bench.
The majority of the Test 23 will probably play 5 games in 6 weeks with some having one of those games against a very easy opposition in the first game. -
@Crucial I wouldn't argue with any of that. The squad is big enough for two games each week. My point was the quality of the opposition over such a short period (no easy games barring possibly the first). Something else that I didn't articulate was that in a normal touring squad, the players pretty much know where they are in the pecking order. With the Lions that is or at least should, be different, so it isn't quite as simple as "you guys play Saturdays and you guys play mid-week" with the odd exception due to injury or form. There are no squad members that are there for the experience or what have you.
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@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
The point I was making was that it isn't necessarily the same guys running out on Saturday as on Wednesday and the few that might will likely be rotated off the bench.
The majority of the Test 23 will probably play 5 games in 6 weeks with some having one of those games against a very easy opposition in the first game.My arguement would be these guys just played a long season, they turn up & play those 5 games against very good teams looking to knock shit out of them & sure they can sub guys in, but they won't have combinations, like Cato says,. this is by far & away the toughest schedule any team has face in probably 20 odd years. Maybe further back than that.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the Lions, more to put a rose tinted edge on the ABs injury issues. We may front up our 3rd choice blindside in the 3rd test, but the Lions will be subbing in a totally new guy too
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@gollum said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
The point I was making was that it isn't necessarily the same guys running out on Saturday as on Wednesday and the few that might will likely be rotated off the bench.
The majority of the Test 23 will probably play 5 games in 6 weeks with some having one of those games against a very easy opposition in the first game.My arguement would be these guys just played a long season, they turn up & play those 5 games against very good teams looking to knock shit out of them & sure they can sub guys in, but they won't have combinations, like Cato says,. this is by far & away the toughest schedule any team has face in probably 20 odd years. Maybe further back than that.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the Lions, more to put a rose tinted edge on the ABs injury issues. We may front up our 3rd choice blindside in the 3rd test, but the Lions will be subbing in a totally new guy too
The Lions advantage is that most of their players are military medium so if you lose one you can just parachute in another pretty good, test standard (but not world class) player.
For instance if they lost Rory Best to injury they'd lose some abrasiveness in the tight loose, but on the plus side they might win some lineouts.
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There's a pretty good Youtube channel with an Irish dude and Kiwi fella talking rugby and the Lions. Will find the link.
Anyway, Irish dude was talking about a midfield with SBW and Giraffe Barrett. Obviously too late to see that now, but the mere thought makes me salivate. I really hope it happens one day.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Have you seen Jordie's tackle stats? Not good reading, especially if you want him in the midfield now.
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@Bovidae said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Have you seen Jordie's tackle stats? Not good reading, especially if you want him in the midfield now.
As a fullback. Massive difference.
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@Stargazer I don't see the rush .,
Some more experience and some hardened muscle on those bones over the next couple of seasons should have him well prepared .
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@Stargazer said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Not responding to anyone in particular, but I sometimes get the feeling that people expect way too much from Jordie Barrett this year. He only just turned 20, give him some time. The same applies to the other 20-year-old, Rieko Ioane.
It is weird that there's speculation he will start at 15 against the Lions. Obviously never going to happen.
But, there's no harm in being excited about a future (and I stress future) combo with SBW.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Stargazer said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Not responding to anyone in particular, but I sometimes get the feeling that people expect way too much from Jordie Barrett this year. He only just turned 20, give him some time. The same applies to the other 20-year-old, Rieko Ioane.
It is weird that there's speculation he will start at 15 against the Lions. Obviously never going to happen.
But, there's no harm in being excited about a future (and I stress future) combo with SBW.
Hmm, but SBW is at the other end of the spectrum. He turns 32 this year.
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@Stargazer said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Stargazer said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Not responding to anyone in particular, but I sometimes get the feeling that people expect way too much from Jordie Barrett this year. He only just turned 20, give him some time. The same applies to the other 20-year-old, Rieko Ioane.
It is weird that there's speculation he will start at 15 against the Lions. Obviously never going to happen.
But, there's no harm in being excited about a future (and I stress future) combo with SBW.
Hmm, but SBW is at the other end of the spectrum. He turns 32 this year.
Yes, but he keeps himself in terrific shape and is a non-drinking, non-banking Muslim. He could keep on playing until he's 40.
In all seriousness, there's no reason he can't play at the next RWC.
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@gollum I guess the tale will be in the tape, but I'll be surprised if the Lions don't lose a significant number of players to injury. We'll be lucky not to lose several, as well.
You only have to look at the casualty wards of our Super rugby teams to see that it's pretty standard to lose one or two players to injury per match.
But, let's hope both teams are close to full strength and that the series doesn't end up being decided by injuries, cards or other blatant refereeing errors.
