Highlanders vs. Blues
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@taniwharugby said in Highlanders vs. Blues:
@Bovidae the issue for me is why has this suddenly become an issue for him?
I know people love to put the boot into the guy, and some of it is well deserved, but what you hear form his team mates and coaches, he is the ultimate professional and great guy to have in your team, so makes you wonder if it is the advice (or lack of) he gets elsewhere about things that seem to be the issue.
Haha you'd think he was 10 years old. If he chooses to associate with people like Nasser and raging homophobes like Menk then that is a reflection of his own character.
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If the conscientious objector thing was key, surely the Blues management would have known at the start of the season (or when contract was signed) and prepared for the eventuality of SBW on the field with a jersey sans BNZ logo.
By whacking on lots of peach coloured strapping tape over a dark blue jersey, he has deliberately made it a noticeable thing. HEY EVERYONE I'VE COVERED UP SOMETHING. When it could have been a more discreet black marker pen or black tape or whatever.
And he's played plenty of games with the BNZ logo on jerseys uncovered. Why now is it an issue?
Publicity stunt.
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I don't think it's a publicity stunt at all. As I've mentioned before, people develop beliefs and opinions. You don't get them overnight. Because he has not grown up as a Muslim, he's started forming those beliefs quite late. Also factor in that he converted at a difficult time in his life when he had his alcohol issues (among other things), so he might not have started with all the information about what all the "requirements" are that a Muslim has to meet in his daily life (apart from the well-known ones, such as not drinking, not eating pork, halal food and gambling etc). Add to that the company he holds (some have been mentioned here) and possibly they're getting an increasing influence on him as well. So there are bound to be changes in what he considers compatible with his faith and what not.
So what was acceptable to him a couple of years ago when he played for the Crusaders and Chiefs may have gradually become unacceptable to him now. Obviously, there are inconsistencies along the way. I don't just mean the remaining logos on training jerseys, but also making selfies or being photographed to give just the one example. As far as I know, Islam prohibits the photography of animate things because - among other things - they can lead to worship and glorification of someone other than Allah. This won't be the end of SBW's religious development, esp if he's influenced by people with more strict/radical ideas.
It's also clear that he thought that having that conscientious objection clause available, meant that he could invoke that instantly, while - apparently - players need to make a request to NZR/their SR team first and obtain permission first. The fact that he didn't ask permission prior to taping off the logos seems to imply that he is either a very ignorant and impulsive person who didn't consider it properly, or a person who doesn't care about procedures and what his employers think about it.
I think you have to know him personally, like his team mates, to know what he's really like. I certainly won't form opinions about him by reading opinionated articles from journos. Just as I don't follow the fanboy hype around him, I won't let jealous/anti-religious/Islamophobic grudges influence me. Above all, I don't really care what he does or not, as long as he plays well when/if he gets to wear a black jersey again. -
@Stargazer said in Highlanders vs. Blues:
I don't think it's a publicity stunt at all. As I've mentioned before, people develop beliefs and opinions. You don't get them overnight. Because he has not grown up as a Muslim, he's started forming those beliefs quite late. Also factor in that he converted at a difficult time in his life when he had his alcohol issues (among other things), so he might not have started with all the information about what all the "requirements" are that a Muslim has to meet in his daily life (apart from the well-known ones, such as not drinking, not eating pork, halal food and gambling etc). Add to that the company he holds (some have been mentioned here) and possibly they're getting an increasing influence on him as well. So there are bound to be changes in what he considers compatible with his faith and what not.
So what was acceptable to him a couple of years ago when he played for the Crusaders and Chiefs may have gradually become unacceptable to him now. Obviously, there are inconsistencies along the way. I don't just mean the remaining logos on training jerseys, but also making selfies or being photographed to give just the one example. As far as I know, Islam prohibits the photography of animate things because - among other things - they can lead to worship and glorification of someone other than Allah. This won't be the end of SBW's religious development, esp if he's influenced by people with more strict/radical ideas.
It's also clear that he thought that having that conscientious objection clause available, meant that he could invoke that instantly, while - apparently - players need to make a request to NZR/their SR team first and obtain permission first. The fact that he didn't ask permission prior to taping off the logos seems to imply that he is either a very ignorant and impulsive person who didn't consider it properly, or a person who doesn't care about procedures and what his employers think about it.
I think you have to know him personally, like his team mates, to know what he's really like. I certainly won't form opinions about him by reading opinionated articles from journos. Just as I don't follow the fanboy hype around him, I won't let jealous/anti-religious/Islamophobic grudges influence me. Above all, I don't really care what he does or not, as long as he plays well when/if he gets to wear a black jersey again.How long will he be incapacitated when he gets the tatts removed? have the Blues factored this into the equation?
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This whole thing is very David Pococky. If it was him doing it i would probably give him shit so ffs sbw, You don't help yourself with this sort of shit. Fair enough it is every players right because it's in their collective agreement but because it is based on religion and given the fact he is still happy to take money that has come from those sponsors it gets up my nose. Added to that he has already worn those logos plenty of times so it is hardly some life long belief.
As others have said it could have been done a whole lot more low key. Use black tape, pick the logo threads out, colour over it with black pen. Smacks of the controversial bullshit mundine and other boxers pull to get pay per view sales up when they have a fight.
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@Stargazer said in Highlanders vs. Blues:
@MN5 LOL, let him do that after the EOYT (if selected) in his own time. BTW, are all tattoos against Islam?
You wrote the novel above, shouldn't you be the expert?
I think this is all a bit galling due to the fact that whilst SBW is obviously good he's not McCaw/DC good...even dare I say it Pocock good.....do we see Read, Kaino, BB, Whitelock, Retallick or whoever carrying on with this shit?
Sports teams come from all walks of life and backgrounds, you can guarantee more than a couple of his blues teammates will be spewing at all of this.
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@Bones said in Highlanders vs. Blues:
Has he actually said it's religion based?
Stuff.co.nz believe it's religious based.
I'd bet my children's lives on the accuracy, integrity and proof reading of every single report I've ever read from them so that's good enough for me.
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@Rocky-Rockbottom It wouldn't be religion if there wasn't an element of hypocrisy and cherry picking...
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@MN5 Yeah good point.
I did have a laugh when I was saw the video on stuff that showed a clip from the game - I never noticed the tape and now I realise it was because it was pretty much the same colour as his skin. So black tape would've been a better option?
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@Stargazer said in Highlanders vs. Blues:
I think you have to know him personally, like his team mates, to know what he's really like. I certainly won't form opinions about him by reading opinionated articles from journos. Just as I don't follow the fanboy hype around him, I won't let jealous/anti-religious/Islamophobic grudges influence me. Above all, I don't really care what he does or not, as long as he plays well when/if he gets to wear a black jersey again.
Haha, you call someone out on the hypocrisy of his actions and that hanging out with people that despise homosexuals reflects badly on him and suddenly made up words like Islamophobic come out.
I'm pretty comfortable forming an opinion of him based on those two things alone, let alone everything else that comes with brand SBW.
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@Bones said in Highlanders vs. Blues:
@MN5 Yeah good point.
I did have a laugh when I was saw the video on stuff that showed a clip from the game - I never noticed the tape and now I realise it was because it was pretty much the same colour as his skin. So black tape would've been a better option?
Dude don't bring race into this.
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@Stargazer Good post with well thought out argument - I don't agree with it, but your points are clear and succinct.
I do think it's naive though to think that this was done the way it was without intending it to cause the shitstorm it did. It could have been dealt with through the right channels very early on, instead of surprising everybody turning up on the day with them covered.
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@No-Quarter Lima Sopoaga has to make a public apology for calling team mates gay on twitter and SBW gets a pass for hanging out with a guy who says homosexuals are worse than animals?
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@No-Quarter said in Highlanders vs. Blues:
@Stargazer said in Highlanders vs. Blues:
I think you have to know him personally, like his team mates, to know what he's really like. I certainly won't form opinions about him by reading opinionated articles from journos. Just as I don't follow the fanboy hype around him, I won't let jealous/anti-religious/Islamophobic grudges influence me. Above all, I don't really care what he does or not, as long as he plays well when/if he gets to wear a black jersey again.
Haha, you call someone out on the hypocrisy of his actions and that hanging out with people that despise homosexuals reflects badly on him and suddenly made up words like Islamophobic come out.
I'm pretty comfortable forming an opinion of him based on those two things alone, let alone everything else that comes with brand SBW.
He's mates with Quade Cooper. That's another black mark.
However he also gave 100 grand to Christchurch for the earthquake appeal. He's well off but he's not Tiger Woods or David Beckham....kudos for him for that.
My main issue as it has always been has been the massive attention given to his every move relative to his talent....
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@MN5 ironic that a count-back would more than likely show you as having the most posts on the guy
Rrrrrrraaaaiiiiinnn
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