B&I Lions 2017
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@SimonAdd_2 said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bovidae I don't see much point picking guys like Warburton and Tipuric, who are the best in the NH at the traditional openside role but we already know are nowhere near their SH counterparts. I'd prefer to do what Eddie Jones has done with England and pick ruck-clearers like O'Brien and Haskell at openside and just smash the breakdown. Robshaw and O'Mahoney give a different look on the blindside. It's not what I expect Gatland to do, but this is my team dammit. 😊
Similar deal at fullback. Halfpenny, Brown and Kearney are all well past their best as attacking threats and unlike if we were playing South Africa or even Australia, I don't think the All Blacks will use the high ball as a major weapon. So Carbery makes it in as a bolter, and Williams, Watson and Daly can all cover 15 too.
I don't think Maitland is close I'm afraid. Loads of wings who offer more, and even for Scotland I'd have Visser and Seymour above him.
We can forget it if Warburton doesn't go and Robshaw and Visser do
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@MiketheSnow I think openside is going to be one of the more problematical areas for Gatland. I'm not sure that we have a 7 that can compete with Cane in being a scavenger and perhaps only Tipuric that could compete with Savea in being a wide ranging link man. Warburton would be the closest we have to competing with Cane, however I can see @Bovidae point of view that maybe we need to look at competing in a different way. If so that would mean either O'Brien or Haskell at 7 - and O'Brien would get the nod for me. I would quite like to see SOB at 7 and Warburton at 6.
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@Catogrande said in B&I Lions 2017:
@MiketheSnow I think openside is going to be one of the more problematical areas for Gatland. I'm not sure that we have a 7 that can compete with Cane in being a scavenger and perhaps only Tipuric that could compete with Savea in being a wide ranging link man. Warburton would be the closest we have to competing with Cane, however I can see @Bovidae point of view that maybe we need to look at competing in a different way. If so that would mean either O'Brien or Haskell at 7 - and O'Brien would get the nod for me. I would quite like to see SOB at 7 and Warburton at 6.
With Billy at 8?
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@Bones I bow to your superior knowledge as I haven't seen much of either Cane or Savea. What I have seen of Savea though (admittedly not a lot more than a cameo), was him zipping all over the park, popping up everywhere and carrying in the wider channels. Cane and a comparison to a latter day McCaw would be good enough for me!
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@MiketheSnow Three weeks ago I would have said Billy V without a doubt but Faletau has been paying very well for Bath and I would think it will go down to what sort of game plan Gatland wants. However I'd say Faletau is now in the box seat as he is (quite rightly) one of Gatland's favourites.
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@Catogrande Don't forget Todd either, who's a hybrid between the 2...
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@Catogrande The ABs have not played a style that expects the 7 to be an out and out scavenger for a long time. Most will have that skill as part of their arsenal (and some are more effective than others) but instead everyone on the field is expected to identify a steal opportunity and have the skill to execute it. The key being in the identification of the opportunity.
The idea is that no one wastes time or invites an unnecessary penalty by going for a jackal that they can't complete legally.
With 7 having the higher number of times being in the first 2 to the breakdown they will get the chance more often than others but then again one of our better players on the steal is BBBR.
The key for the Lions is to pick loosies that, on attack, can secure the ball (easy to do if playing a hit it up game close in, harder to do if playing an open game) and on defence will be enough of a nuisance as to legally slow down the recycle.
It will depend a lot on the style Gatland wants. As soon as the Lions look to move wide they need the more mobile loosies, if playing a tighter game they need the heavy hitters.
If the ABs secure ball then the Lions defensively will need guys that will be able to chase around the park. -
@Crucial Yeah, no-one seems to go for an out and out jackal these days save for Aus (and now Scotland), but your boys have shown a bit more nous on the floor than ours (BILS in this instance). So much so that I fear for our ability to compete in this area. We have a few that are pretty good over the ball Warburton, itoje for instance, but you're right it is the ability for the whole pack to play that game at the right time.
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@Catogrande Itoje won't be able to get too many steals from the sin bin anyway....
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@Bones Strange comment, I can't remember a single Test yellow card for Itoje? He's certainly not known for them.
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@SimonAdd_2 Not so strange if ya watched the 6N, he was very, very lucky not to see card (s). High tackles and high cleans galore, it was rather oddly ignored. Which probably isn't a good thing for the BIL, as I guess he won't be looking to curtail that...
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@Bones Nice try, I'm not being dragged into another high tackle debate on here!
Re: Warburton, @MiketheSnow touches on an interesting point. Do the Lions need a backrow lineout option? If so, a lot of the backrow combinations being posited would be ruled out. Personally, I'd go for O'Mahony-O'Brien-Vunipola, with Faletau on the bench.
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@SimonAdd_2 said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bones Nice try, I'm not being dragged into another high tackle debate on here!
Re: Warburton, @MiketheSnow touches on an interesting point. Do the Lions need a backrow lineout option? If so, a lot of the backrow combinations being posited would be ruled out. Personally, I'd go for O'Mahony-O'Brien-Vunipola, with Faletau on the bench.
Depending on the lifters, Warburton is more than capable in the lineout. Tipuric too.
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@SimonAdd_2 No need for debate - it's a definite trend from him and unless they take him aside to work on it, I'd put money on him seeing at least a yellow at some stage during the tour. Just ask Stuart Hogg....
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@Bones said in B&I Lions 2017:
@SimonAdd_2 No need for debate - it's a definite trend from him and unless they take him aside to work on it, I'd put money on him seeing at least a yellow at some stage during the tour. Just ask Stuart Hogg....
All we'll have to do is run DMac at him as a sacrificial ploy.
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If Gatland wants a more specialist 7, then I'd be picking vdF or Dan Leavy before O'Brien.
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@Crucial said in B&I Lions 2017:
@Bones said in B&I Lions 2017:
@SimonAdd_2 No need for debate - it's a definite trend from him and unless they take him aside to work on it, I'd put money on him seeing at least a yellow at some stage during the tour. Just ask Stuart Hogg....
All we'll have to do is run DMac at him as a sacrificial ploy.
Kolisi wrapped his forearm around DMac's head and Peyper was super quick to brush it off and simply claim McKenzie fell into it.
Peyper will ref one of the tests too. Although he might not be so lenient if the offender is a different nationality to himself.....
