B&I Lions 2017
-
@jegga said in B&I Lions 2017:
If Gatland has less form for behaving like a gaping arsehole I would agree with you. I put him in the same catagory as Woodward , Crusty and Jake White when it comes it comes gobbing off whenever the media are in the same postcode so fuck him.
Yeah I'm on board with that, he's always been a whiney bitch. He was a whiney bitch at Waikato too. Comes from being behind Fitzy for so long when he was clearly the worlds best hooker. Then missing out on the ABs when he was the worlds best coach, not geting enough praise at Wales when clearly the greatest 6 nations coach ever & so on & so on... I just think NZ can sometime knee jerk a bit if anyone dare imply a NZ player is maybe not as good as another player etc.
We are staggeringly thin skinned re the ABs
-
@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:
The bit that is glossed over there is -
"..have won 92 per cent of games in the Steve Hansen era. "
"Anyone in New Zealand could coach the All Blacks and you would be guaranteed an 85 per cent win record"
So he wasn't saying anyone could do what Hansen has done, he was saying anyone could do what, say Henry or Mitchell did (85% & 82%), and given the toys thrown by most kiwis in 2007 & 2003 I think most of us feel we could have coached the ABs to WC failure. Or equally you'd have to be fucking usless to hit 67% with the AB resources coughlauriemains. I can buy that.
Same deal re the embaressed bit, he points out a section of the crowd booed & that kiwis are awesome because they are humble when winning & he was a bit embaressed to have been there with non-kiwi friends & be let down by segments of the crowd around him. The booing came across loud & clear on telly too. If it was 2% of the crowd they must have had fucking megaphones. We toss shit at the arogant Aussies regularly on here - especially in cricket.
If the headline was "Gats saddened by section of crowd being assholes when he was there with non-kiwi mates explaining why NZ is an awesome place to tour" it would have been just as accurate, but less click-baity
Sorry to call you on your bullshit, but, bullshit.
He said that "large portions of the crowrd" were booing. That was not true and obvious for anyone at the ground, which he was. I'd be surprised if Cooper even heard it. If you could hear it on the telly that's probably because there were a bunch of them right next to the cameraman. He's pretty obviously playing to his audience by taking a jab at AB fans.
Re: the 85% win record. Again, complete bullshit and a bit of jealousy on his part. All of the scribes said the ABs would come back to the pack once the game went fully professional, and up to 2004 that's exactly what was happening, no RWC since 87 and a record loss to SA that year. What Henry did to change that around cannot be understated - the management techniques the AB management employed by giving the players the power was brave, and way outside Henry's comfort zone. Long term it has paid dividends, and I am sure it is why Dingo Deans didn't get the job in 2007 - we didn't want to go back to an authoritarian coaching style.
What do you mean by AB resources? We are heavily under resourced (see: money) compared to the unions and clubs up north. The ABs management is a slick well oiled machine, and as a business is leading the way worldwide. Players that go into the AB environment pretty much always improve out of sight. You can guarantee the Barrett brothers and other new caps will be far better for the experience after the EOYT - that's down to the fantastic coaching and management setup we have.
I'm fucking proud of what they've achieved, and frankly a win record above 85% in a professional era is not "expected", it's nothing short of staggering.
-
I very much doubt anyone could coach the ABs', maybe for a period, while the current crop do what they do, and maybe in a lot of ways they are almost on auto-pilot a lot of the time knowing exactly what each has to do.
Prime example is how much knee jerk reactions are about who should play for the ABs and who shouldn't, they are able to identify the players that fit their systems and culture that probably aren't on most peoples immediate radar (look at ALB for a prime example) Ardie is another example because 'anyone' would have had him starting over Cane, but when Cane hasn't been there it became quite clear these coaches do in fact know what they are upto and what suits their plans best.
Marshall said this morning that even down to subs, when you have some of the best players on the planet in A Smith, Coles, BB, and v Argentina the coaches had the balls to pull 2 of them from the field, and then v Aus BB is off his game and they trust in their team to get him off too.
'Anyone' would have persevered with Smith & Coles, 'Anyone' would have persevered with BB v Aus too.
-
I may be out of touch but I dont think anyone is actually upset by what Gats is saying. Or been touched on the thin part of their skin.
The Cooper comment is correct, and 90% of country would agree, and no different to what goldie, TJ, Nisbo etc have been saying on different broadcasts. Or AB players and management. As a former booer even I agree.
The coaching comment is wrong, but not offensive to anyone except current and recent coaching staff. It's basically saying NZ must produce such awesome players we can coach ourselves.
Of course we all know that the difference between 75% and 85 to 90% is absolutely massive at the top level and has been the result of a lot of people's efforts, including the coaching staff, who quite frankly impress the pants off me. But also people like Enoka, Tew, Buck Anderson, the senior leader group, the players, Gill etc etc
-
@taniwharugby It's very easy to look at a fully formed team and think "fuck, anyone could get wins out of that talent" which completely ignores the skill involved in putting that team together.
I reckon i could have won the world cup with Woodward's England side. It was brutally and simplistically effective. Rock solid set piece, great kicking game, great defensive unit, brutal forwards, just enough pace out wide to use if it was really, really on, and a points machine at 10. It's not hard to see how to get that team to a win. Especially if you don't give a fuck what it looks like.
But you have to credit Clive with assembling that set of players. It didn't fall in his lap, he built it from the ashes of one of the worst tours in history.
The "anyone could coach that lot" is a shit comment, and despite his recent history as a fucking whinger, i still expect better from Gats. His comments about kiwi fans is probably pretty close though. All Black fans aren't just made up of people from this parish, who (mostly) know a bit about the game, there are also a lot of massive piston wristed gibbons to whom the All Blacks are a dick measuring stick. Fuck those guys.
-
@mariner4life that's pretty much what I was saying wasn't it?
Inherit great team, have great results for a bit, nek minut, injuries, retirements, holy shit I am way out of my depth.
-
@taniwharugby yea i was agreeing with you! and expanding a little. you know, continuing the conversation
-
@mariner4life can't always tell round this place
-
Joe Schmidt rules out joining Lions set-up
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/1111/830801-schimdt-rules-out-joining-lions-set-up/
-
Some team selections from the Times today.
Interestingly not much love for Hartley as hooker.
Owen Slot
Ben Kay
Stuart Barnes
Alex Lowe
John Westerby
Alistair Reid
ABs are 1/5 on with William Hill to win the series, Lions 7/2
Those teams don't strike much fear into me as an AB fan
-
Not sure of the logic behind having Sexton and Farrell at 10/12. Farrell is an excellent goal kicker but is that really needed with Sexton there, and the attack could really suffer.
A lot of selections of George North too - in his current state I don't know about that.
-
-
@Bones Barnes and Lowe obviously don't know what a backrow should do.
I don't know why everyone is picking Sexton either - he's as frail as players come.
And Henshaw is much better than Farrell.
-
@antipodean Who would you select at 10 for the Lions?
-
@KiwiMurph the shit appears to be hitting the fan over North getting back on the field...apparently he passed the sideline tests, but had the Doctors had access to the video of him being out cold they would not have let him back on the field...how long was his nap?
-
@KiwiMurph I think the NH is really starting to develop players with a proper range of skills and without a player like Ford leading them around I don't think they'll play the total game necessary to win a series against the All Blacks.
-
Latest on the coaching front has Borthwick, Farrell and Howley as assistants.
I'm hoping that the inclusion of Howley doesn't mean reversion to Warrenball.
-
@KiwiMurph said in B&I Lions 2017:
@antipodean Who would you select at 10 for the Lions?
It will greatly depend on the gameplan that Gatland goes for. If he reverts to mean then Sexton or Biggar will be at 10 - possibly Farrell as an outside bet. If he wants to play a more expansive style then I'd say Sexton is still in the box seat, marginally ahead of Ford. However, as has been said, Sexton is looking quite fragile these days so don't expect him to last the tour. Sexton is the more complete 10, able to play a variety of game plans to a high standard and his control of a game is superior to the others. The flair players are Russell and Ford but given Gatland's dislike for anything much more than "do as you're told" I don't expect them to be test contenders.
-
There were also some pundit selections in the Sunday Times (firewalled I think) which included one from Stephen Jones who demonstrated his complete lack of selection ability having players out of position and a large contingent of Welsh.
Edit: found a post on another website with a photo of the selections
