Theory about historically successful teams
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What I find interesting is how many of these offences are exaggerated in my opinion.
The All Blacks have and always will be accused of being overly cynical. In rugby the winning team is better at pushing the envelope, so I can understand the criticism. I used to think the same about George Smith when he was winning against us. Cozy relationships with the refs go hand in hand that point.
The cameras don't lie, and there are certainly instances of All Blacks committing foul play. I'd argue it's no worse than other teams, but that's neither here nor there.
However, this lack of humility is manufactured as far as I'm concerned. As fans we're terribly self-righteous and thin-skinned, but I'm very proud of how the All Blacks conduct themselves. I remember Kafe's rant about the lack of humility from the ABs and he played an interview from Retallick and Cane to prove it, and I couldn't have disagreed more with his description. This Aaron Smith thing has been blown way out of proportion. He screwed up, but still: "Sports star cheats on partner. Has quickie in bathroom"... shock horror! I thought that was one of the perks of being a rugby star in NZ.
I guess it build's on OP's point that everyone wants to bring the team at the top down to earth, either by their actual infractions, exaggeration or fabrication.
As a New Englander now I have plenty of self-righteous indignation about deflategate too.
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I remember when the storm were going through that 4 year blitz period, ( it later turned out they were cheating the cap but people didnt know that at the time
)People would come with all sorts of reasons they were wining , most of it related to underhand tactics, but very little praise that they were just good .
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I shouldnt punish myself with this stuff,
But was reading a Facebook post , it was about the disallowed try in the bledisloe test , and an Englishman wrote, the refs favor them , that is how they win most of their games ,
if it was a school kid you could accept it , I looked at his profile , it was all about rugby and he was in his 40s by the look of it, people actually believe this stuff.
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The lack of humility thing irritates the shit out of me.
A disclaimer: personally I don't think any All Black has ever acted like a braggart or arrogant fuckface in an interview.
But at this point in time, what the fuck are they supposed to say? Aw nah mate, number 1 in the world for seven continuous years - fluke. Back to back world cups - lucky. Bledisloe Cup for 13 years - could have gone either way. 14 Tri Nations/Rugby Championship titles - ok, I guess. 10 series wins over the Lions - not bad. 18 wins in a row against all-comers - quite good.
At this point it seems that no matter what they say, they'll be accused of something - either lack of humility, or false modesty. If the whinging little bitches around the world actually concentrated on fitness and tactics and gameplans that maximised their strengths instead of focusing on bagging the All Blacks, they'd probablywin more often. -
Yes, I disliked and whinged about the great Aussie cricket team of the Waugh years.
Agonised over the 50/50s that'd turn into centuries .... While our 50/50s turned a 25 into a 36 etc before they'd generate another wicket chance anyway .....
Also couldn't stand the great Auckland rugby team of late 80s, early 90s.
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AB fans are far from perfect. We tend to be dismissive of other teams, we often overrate how good we are and can come across as being incredibly arrogant at times.
As for opposition fans, they seem to think that it's perfectly ok to constantly throw accusations of the ABs cheating, being given the rub of the green from the refs and the arrogance displayed by the team etc and not expect retaliation. As other have said, these claims are almost always unfounded. But what is even more annoying is when kiwis then go in to bat for the ABs, we are accused of being bad winners etc. The old "can't you just enjoy supporting this great team instead of..." line is a favourite of a non AB supporter. So essentially it's ok for them to bash the ABs but we are not allowed to defend them.
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I'm just going to take a bit of time out from basking in our team's success to tell all the haters to
suck it!!
Respect is earned bitches! and you all suck, so you get nothing!! We cheat, we're filthy players! The refs are on our side! and we win! Eat one and live with it! #notsorrynotsorry
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It's easy to see why supporters of lesser nations get the shits. If you look at their records against us since the start of 2000 (a rough approximation of when it became possible for nuts to froth on the internet) it makes for great reading (if you wear black of course)
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@mariner4life they could also get the shits because we call them things like "lesser nations"
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@dogmeat said in Theory about historically successful teams:
@mariner4life they could also get the shits because we call them things like "lesser nations"
And the thing where "you only beat us because we played shit, bro!"
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@NTA said in Theory about historically successful teams:
And the thing where "you only beat us because we played shit, bro!"
Thankfully we haven't heard that one for a while now.....
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@dogmeat said in Theory about historically successful teams:
@mariner4life they could also get the shits because we call them things like "lesser nations"
the numbers don't lie brah
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@NTA said in Theory about historically successful teams:
@dogmeat said in Theory about historically successful teams:
@mariner4life they could also get the shits because we call them things like "lesser nations"
And the thing where "you only beat us because we played shit, bro!"
Not to mention "You only got within 10 points of us coz we played shit!"
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@Milk said in Theory about historically successful teams:
What I find interesting is how many of these offences are exaggerated in my opinion.
The All Blacks have and always will be accused of being overly cynical. In rugby the winning team is better at pushing the envelope, so I can understand the criticism. I used to think the same about George Smith when he was winning against us. Cozy relationships with the refs go hand in hand that point.
The cameras don't lie, and there are certainly instances of All Blacks committing foul play. I'd argue it's no worse than other teams, but that's neither here nor there.
However, this lack of humility is manufactured as far as I'm concerned. As fans we're terribly self-righteous and thin-skinned, but I'm very proud of how the All Blacks conduct themselves. I remember Kafe's rant about the lack of humility from the ABs and he played an interview from Retallick and Cane to prove it, and I couldn't have disagreed more with his description. This Aaron Smith thing has been blown way out of proportion. He screwed up, but still: "Sports star cheats on partner. Has quickie in bathroom"... shock horror! I thought that was one of the perks of being a rugby star in NZ.
I guess it build's on OP's point that everyone wants to bring the team at the top down to earth, either by their actual infractions, exaggeration or fabrication.
As a New Englander now I have plenty of self-righteous indignation about deflategate too.
A good mate of mine (Australian, half Italian) met a Kiwi girl in London and they moved to NZ a few years back. He was pretty "typical" with regard to the abs, i.e. a dickhead. But since moving to Auckland his view has changed completely. I visited him there last year and he had nothing but praise for them. He couldn't believe that a group of guys who are worshipped in such a small country could remain so humble and grounded. He contrasted this with certain Wallabies and of course the greasy tools who play (or rather dive) for Italy in soccer.
It was really nice of him to say that because while I totally agree that some NZ fans can be tossers, the abs themselves are generally a sound group of guys who certainly don't deserve the vitriol thrown at them by certain people.
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The thing about the AB's is also about the internal marketing.
Compare the percentage of school kids who have actually met an All Black to Austrlians that have met a Wallaby / Baggy Green or Poms who have met a football player and I'm sure the number would hugely different. AFL I suspect may be similar to the AB's in that regard.
English rugby is probably quite good in that department if you only count private schools with shockingly high fees.
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@MajorRage said in Theory about historically successful teams:
The thing about the AB's is also about the internal marketing.
Compare the percentage of school kids who have actually met an All Black to Austrlians that have met a Wallaby / Baggy Green
Excellent point - you have to live in a very small part of Sydney to even clap eyes on a Wallaby down the street. They seem to get to schools rarely, though that was changing under McKenzie with the country tours etc.
But its not the big name blokes a lot of the time. Which is not to say they don't do it:
http://www.rugby.com.au/videos/2016/10/27/04/00/wallabies-visit-schools
But when you're the minority sport in the nation its just less frequent. Throw in the travel that the average Super Rugby Wallaby does compared to an AFL* / NRL* player and its like sighting a unicorn.
- Obviously there is a fairly hefty peptides / three-strikes drug policy / spouse-beating schedule to keep up. But that's just up the road, not in another whole country!
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It's a natural thing. Any team that wins with the consistency that the All Blacks do will cop a lot of people wanting them to lose. NZ are far from alone in this, it's in every sport. The slight difference is that there are not that many major sports where one team has been so dominant, so you guys are bound to cop it more.
I too, do not get the arrogance thing about the team, some fans for sure, but then again, that's usual. The thing that would grate for me is the repetitive unfounded accusations that seem to become entrenched - poaching, cheating influencing refs.
And on that note I shall leave you with a quote from this thread:-
"English rugby is probably quite good in that department if you only count private schools with shockingly high fees." -
@akan004 said in Theory about historically successful teams:
AB fans are far from perfect. We tend to be dismissive of other teams, we often overrate how good we are and can come across as being incredibly arrogant at times.
As for opposition fans, they seem to think that it's perfectly ok to constantly throw accusations of the ABs cheating, being given the rub of the green from the refs and the arrogance displayed by the team etc and not expect retaliation. As other have said, these claims are almost always unfounded. But what is even more annoying is when kiwis then go in to bat for the ABs, we are accused of being bad winners etc. The old "can't you just enjoy supporting this great team instead of..." line is a favourite of a non AB supporter. So essentially it's ok for them to bash the ABs but we are not allowed to defend them.
I think if you asked All Blacks fans 18 games ago, most of us would have expected us to lose in the next 18 games. I think you could argue our success has taken a lot of our fans by surprise. I think we do tend to lack knowledge about Northern Hemisphere rugby but then again a lot of us don't have the Rugby Channel.
