All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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Right, like I'm the only one on here who's mentioned Savea maybe, just maybe a bit below his best. Make sure you address all his other haters posting above with equal outrage.
What gets me is that he is so far below his best it's not funny. The old school, interested Savea was an absolute weapon. He's dropped back to just a very good international winger. Good, but not the superstar that he was.
When he was playing for the Canes a couple of years ago, he had an ability to just wreck a set defensive line that was ready for him. Just slipped/broke tackles and went away. Did the same for the ABs, too. Compared to that, he's a long way off right now.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Tregaskis I've already posted his stats twice. He's doing a lot more than just making the odd few metres in contact.
I agree he doesn't look quite like the confident blockbuster we expect, but for some reason people are judging him on some weird level where everything is ignored unless he makes a mistake.
He's become exactly what Joe Rokokoko became. How the fuck does Bryan Habana stay at the top so long ? I guess doing nothing but hunt for intercepts isn't too taxing on the body long term.
Christ on a bike. You outdo yourself every time with your rugby comments bro. That's a pearler.
Right, like I'm the only one on here who's mentioned Savea maybe, just maybe a bit below his best. Make sure you address all his other haters posting above with equal outrage.
Oh yeah, that's right, the "other haters" all said he's just like Rokocoko was. I didn't realise that is your way of saying he's a bit below his best. I think most people would think of that as his form has fallen off a cliff a la Rodders. Look at his stats and his play, you're about as far off as you can get.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Tregaskis I've already posted his stats twice. He's doing a lot more than just making the odd few metres in contact.
I agree he doesn't look quite like the confident blockbuster we expect, but for some reason people are judging him on some weird level where everything is ignored unless he makes a mistake.
He's become exactly what Joe Rokokoko became. How the fuck does Bryan Habana stay at the top so long ? I guess doing nothing but hunt for intercepts isn't too taxing on the body long term.
Christ on a bike. You outdo yourself every time with your rugby comments bro. That's a pearler.
Right, like I'm the only one on here who's mentioned Savea maybe, just maybe a bit below his best. Make sure you address all his other haters posting above with equal outrage.
Oh yeah, that's right, the "other haters" all said he's just like Rokocoko was. I didn't realise that is your way of saying he's a bit below his best. I think most people would think of that as his form has fallen off a cliff a la Rodders. Look at his stats and his play, you're about as far off as you can get.
Joe R went from really dangerous to not as dangerous. Is it too much to draw a comparison between the two ?
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@MN5 Perfect comparison, my bad. I'm sure Joe Rok was topping many of the stats lists when he went to "not as dangerous" too.
He'll always be well on top in terms of deceptively difficult AB names to spell, very, VERY tough to get all those K's and C's in the right order especially on those quizzes that used to run on the old fern.
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I think Naholo has shown a lot this season and in my opinion he is a very exciting player. I did some stats comparing, but of course they are a bit scewed becouse Naholo has only played 101 minutes to Saveas 344 and the median is always going to drop in a longer run, but anyway;
Savea(per 80 minutes)
1 try
86 metres
10 carries
2,8 clean breaks
3,8 defenders beaten
2 handling errors
1 missed tackle and about 4 made.Naholo(per 80 minutes)
0,8 tries
148 metres
15 carries
5,5 clean breaks
8 defenders beaten
1,6 handling errors
and a surprising zero missed tackles from zero attempts.All the stats are from the Vodacom app
There is some breakdown as to why some people might want to see Naholo being the first choice, but Saveas numbers are impressive too. I want to see Naholo being there becouse I am a fan of his, love the way he looks so fucken casual going around and then bang, puts the hammer down and is gone, and always has that quirky smile on his way.
Just for interest here are Aussie nr. 11 Reece Hodges stats(alltough he should be somewhere else than on the wing);
0,2 tries
5 carries
27 metres
0,6 CB
0,2 DB
1 HE
1 missed tackle and 6 made(he defends @12 a lot)So either way, you could have it worse.
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A big plus they like re Savea is his defence, he's a fucking brick wall, makes some enormous hits. A few times this year I've seen someone creamed & thought "god I love Kaino" & nope, its Savea.
His positioning is excellent, he's almost the Kahui option - when we want a more defensive winger.
His all round game is superb, he's dropped down on the try scoring from 1 game to 1 every 1.2 games... but thats not huge, its not like he's gone tryless this season.
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@gollum Yeah while I think even his defence has dropped off a tiny bit from 2014, it's something he excels at for a big guy (I actually think it was the best aspect of his play in 2014, he made some massive defensive plays to shut down opposition chances).
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
savea does defend well, but naholo isn't a mug. breakdown work, workrate, speed (or acceleration really), elusiveness and support lines are all better in my opinion.
Yep, I agree with all of that, Naholo's support lines are amazingly good, I just don't agree thats its zero sum, for Naholo to be really good, we don't need Savea to be a shadow of his former self
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@dingo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Hopefully its the good J Savea this week, not the disinterested one. He can't have that many chances left.
Again with this? I don't know what the guy needs to do anymore. He's topping stats in heaps of areas, doing great work, I'd say he's meeting targets and then some. He's not there on a chance, he's there on performance.
Hear bloody hear.
Thing is he set the bar so high a couple of years ago when he doesn't score from 40m out and only beats one player he's "bloody useless/disinterested".
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I feel like Savea is taking one for Todd, we were going to be bitching about something & I can almost picture Todd reading at home going
"no way? so no one on the Fern has compared me to Mark Carter?"
"nope, they are all shitting on Savea! high five! The younger ones are chanelling Rokocoko & the older ones have just thought about that 93 tour where fat Inga couldn't find the try line if there was a bucket of KFC on wheels leading him there"While Cruden is just going "no ones goives a shit about me anymore, not even the Cheifs guys"
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I wish tuipolotou would get more love. Squire was excellent last match but I'd still like to see Patrick off the bench for this one. Also naholo again.
But these are minor quibbles.
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Well count me in the minority.
I'm happy to see Julian there. When that guy finds his mojo he is the best we have had since Lomu at beating off defenders to score tries that shouldn't be scored. It must be demoralising for defences knowing they can put 3-4 players on him and he still gets through.
Admittedly, he hasn't shown much of that this year but there is no 'age' reason why he can't re-establish himself, just a mental thing. He still has the ability to be a weapon.
I don't exactly see Naholo scorching up the tracks either.
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This post is deleted!
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I made a post about Julian going through a similar phase to Joe, but deleted it , because re thought it , and im not convinced he is yet.
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Thought this was pretty good:
Wallabies need to go up the guts to stand a chance against All Blacks
The rare meaningful incursions opposition teams have made against the All Blacks share a common denominator: they have been the result of good, direct running in the centre of the field.
Paul Cully
Wallabies need to go up the guts to stand a chance against All Blacks
The rare meaningful incursions opposition teams have made against the All Blacks share a common denominator: they have been the result of good, direct running in the centre of the field.
Liam Williams in the Wales series, Will Genia in Wellington, the combination of Johan Goosen and Pieter-Steph du Toit in Christchurch, and the inside balls the Pumas used in Hamilton: that's where the holes have been found.
Typically, that's where their tight forwards defend. In fact, if you were to point a finger at the players who were stepped, or missed the tackle, in the examples above, the list would be Brodie Retallick, Joe Moody, Dane Coles and Coles again.
Is there a weakness there? Not fundamentally, of course, otherwise there wouldn't be such a gap between the All Blacks and the rest of the competition. It's more needles and haystacks territory but when the bookies have you at $10 in a two-horse race you have to take cheer in the smallest of openings.
There are two elements at play here. First, the back three have got to be prepared to carry into the big men and look for these little mismatches off counterattack ball. Those spotted trying to outflank the All Blacks instead of targeting the low numbers should be given one chance but if they repeat the error they should be immediately hooked. It is not where the opportunities are.
Second, there is a big onus on the tight five to carry strongly and clean out with purpose when the Wallabies are trying to build pressure.
They've got to punch around the fringes and punch again and then bring in some deception with Quade Cooper.
It is all dependent on the tight five though. I have not seen enough of Stephen Moore as a physical force this year. As captain he is the barometer, but the most common adjective associated with him in 2016 has been solid. His graciousness in defeat and position as captain has perhaps spared him from more scrutiny, but no one should be immune. He has to go up a level in Auckland.
The All Blacks aren't unaware that teams might try and hit with direct play. For all that is said about their supposed arrogance, they select teams with a huge amount of respect for the physical nature of Test rugby. That's why Matt Todd is in the team ahead of Ardie Savea.
A New Zealand colleague of mine, Ben Strang, did a fascinating piece on the New Zealand No 7s in July. It showed that the injured Sam Cane and Todd have more in common than either do with Savea.
The key stat in his analysis was the dominant tackle percentage. In short, Cane was by far the most dominant tackler of the trio, and Todd was some way ahead of Savea. It reflected with how they played the game at Super Rugby level, with Savea given more licence to try and win a turnover while the physically larger Cane and Todd would wait back and try to dominate the contact with ball carrier.
I say this unequivocally - Todd's selection at No. 7 is a sign of respect for the Wallabies, a nod to how they think the Wallabies will try to challenge them with aggression and size. If they were anticipating a game of basketball Savea would have been the man.
A Wallabies loss is still the most likely outcome: a loss by 30 points-plus is apparently tempting the casual punters. But a Wallabies performance to be proud of is still in Australian hands, and the way to do that is through the middle. -
Thanks for explaining yourself. The reasons behind the deleted post were really bugging me. Now I can sleep easier 😉
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A GAGR poster posted this just before noon NZT:
WALLABIES TEAM
- Scott Sio (24 Tests)
- Stephen Moore (c) (111 Tests)
- Sekope Kepu (72 Tests)
- Rory Arnold (5 Tests)
- Adam Coleman (6 Tests)
- Dean Mumm (52 Tests)
- Michael Hooper (60 Tests)
- Lopeti Timani (2 Tests)
- Nick Phipps (47 Tests)
- Bernard Foley (36 Tests)
- Henry Speight (5 Tests)
- Reece Hodge (5 Tests)
- Samu Kerevi (7 Tests)
- Dane Haylett-Petty (9 Tests)
- Israel Folau (47 Tests)
RESERVES
- James Hanson (11 Tests)
- Tom Robertson (3 Tests)
- Allan Alaalatoa (4 Tests)
- Rob Simmons (65 Tests)
- David Pocock (60 Tests)
- Nick Frisby (2 Tests)
- Quade Cooper (63 Tests)
- Sefa Naivalu (1 Test)
