All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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A game like the 2011 RWC final is what I would consider to be a pressure game because that was a grind (irrerspective of the occasion). We've been fortunate that the ABs have been playing at a level above the opposition this season so have been able to up the tempo when required.
I really hope Aust make it a difficult game on Sat.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
A game like the 2011 RWC final is what I would consider to be a pressure game because that was a grind (irrerspective of the occasion).
So the ABs have rarely had a game of that pressure in the past 4 or 5 years then....so we don't know what most of our guys are like under pressure
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@taniwharugby Of course the ABs have been under periods of pressure, like in the 1st and 2nd tests against Wales this year, and vs Arg in Hamilton. BUT not for the full 80 mins. As I said, that's a credit to the team.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
You've got to give Beaudy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to playing under pressure. He has played some seriously high pressure games at fullback coming off the bench and came through with flying colours.
That game at Ellis Park two years ago where he single handedly gave up the lead then took it back a minute later told me all I needed to know about his mental fortitude under pressure.
Five eighth is different sure. We also haven't seen how he deals with shitty service from halfback and hopefully we won't need to.
More the wonder of how he can control a pressured game from 10. We have seen him have to deal with shitty service (from TJP) but it was still going forward.
We may not see that until we play England ( with emphasis on the word may ) I think it's not rocket science Eddie will attempt to beat us up front and take away that front foot ball .
Easier said than done obviously . -
My point is more that we haven't been under such pressure that BB has had to take hold of the game tactically and steer us around.
He still looks to me that if there isn't an opportunity for him to make a break he shovels it on (or kicks if a clearance is required). I have yet to see much evidence of DC like 'quarterback' stuff where he would take ownership of steering the plays.
I'm not saying it is a flaw or that he can't do it just that we haven't seen him have to do it so there is little to go on.
I really do think we have had it quite easy during the TRC.Hopefully I am wrong and we smash the Convicts again despite them being up for a hard game. I just have a suspicion we may get more of a match than many pundits think.
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What about the Super Rugby Final. That was more high pressure than any test we have had?
It's a bit of a mickey mouse non comaprison you are making when you talk about pressure. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, before the series started there would have been pressure.
I call it confidence, he has that in spades
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Still missing my point. I haven't said he can't cope under pressure, someone else brought that up.
I'm saying he hasn't had to steer around a tight test match. Is he able to step up in the way DC used to when the 10 needed to control the game.
At present he is playing great because the team performance is allowing him to ply his natural game. Long may that be the case. I'm just not calling him the complete article because I haven't seen him have to play those cards.
As an example, have we seen a performance from him like DC had to pull out in the RWC Semi? -
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I'm going to add a slight voice of caution in all the excitement around BB this year. Yes, he has taken his chances, has improved in many aspects and is in a great run of form. All you can ask of really and he fully deserves his place.
Where my concern lies is that we haven't seen him under pressure, haven't seen how he controls a game when not on the front foot.
Our opposition has been so poor this year so far that Wales probably gave us our toughest moments. We held our own waiting for them to wither and then cut loose when going forward. What happens on that day where a team holds out for 80 minutes? Is BB the man to guide us into position?
I'm fairly sure that the overall team can and will overcome anything currently being thrown at them and I'm not advocating dumping Barrett at all.
I just have reservations that he may not be the complete answer.Fark me, what more do you want the guy to do? Pack into the scrums, throw into the lineouts? The abs were under plenty of pressure against Argentina until BB carved them up and ended the game as a contest. It's not like the guy has just shown up this year. He's been an ab since late 2012. He's played in a rwc final. You can bitch all you want about his goalkicking (which is a real concern, but handling pressure? That's just weird.
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Carter the quarterback is a bit of a misnomer though isn't it? He didn't really add drop goals to his repotoire until after the 2011 RWC, and had some poor returns against a monster Bok pack in the late 00s - one particular game in Hamilton stands out.
There were never the same doubts that seem to be there for Barrett.
Beaudy has excelled at fullback in all the close games against the Boks over the past 5 years, including the semi final. He was a stand out.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Why woul you "hope" Cruden isn't given an opportunity to prove he is good enough to start?
It was a more general statement than that - i hope that if someone improves enough to have surpassed an incumbent while they've been injured - and deserves to hold their starting position - that they hold it. the injured player deserves to be back in the squad, but i don't think they should have a right to immediately start again if someone else is playing better than they were pre-injury. a guarantee of 'back in the squad' means the coach can assess those players and decide who they want to start for the good of the team without being beholden to some statement that players don't lose their spot while they're injured - and it gives the injured guys enough security.
on the specific situation, i already know cruden is good enough to start - but i hope barrett starts because i think he's the better player, and the 10,12,13 has been working very well last couple of games - keep it going i say. -
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Still missing my point. I haven't said he can't cope under pressure, someone else brought that up.
I'm saying he hasn't had to steer around a tight test match. Is he able to step up in the way DC used to when the 10 needed to control the game.
At present he is playing great because the team performance is allowing him to ply his natural game. Long may that be the case. I'm just not calling him the complete article because I haven't seen him have to play those cards.
As an example, have we seen a performance from him like DC had to pull out in the RWC Semi?I got it but it is still a mickey mouse comparison to make. How many times did Dan have that pressure? 5 times in his long test career?
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I think the Wallabies have got better as the season has progressed. I think they defend a lot better now, and with more sting, than when we fingered them early on. It's a pity for them that Genia isn't playing, as he and Cooper had started to look more dangerous.
If they have all their 7s fit, it will be interesting to see the makeup of the back row, given they have looked a bit better with a mix of players. Can they resist playing both Pocock and Hooper just because they are among their best players?
@Crucial i get what you are saying, but i don't think it's actually a worry from his game management angle any way. I doubt he will ever have to play that Wilkinson-esque work the corners, work the runners, get in to point-scoring positions, because that's not how we play. The advantage he has over some of those DC years is the quality of the lineout. Our ability to be confident of our own lineout ball (and to a lesser extent the scrum, we've never had a problem there) takes pressure of us from a field position point of view, and also allows us to bring Barrett's pace in to the game with the big advantage line on offer. Add in his handy passing game, and i think he'll be alright. The other thing that takes the pressure off is the play making ability of others around him, and having a very good 10 on the bench. We won't win forever, but i doubt we'll lose games because Barrett is our 10.
Of course, that ignores the substandard goal kicking which could cost us a close game. But that's not what we are discussing
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@Crucial i get where you are coming from. Don't really agree though. I would say the main reason Barrett hasn't appeared to have had to steer the team around in a tight high pressure game is that when the games have been tight, more often than not Barrett has stepped up and blown the opposition away by scoring tries and setting up others. Then the game is seen as a walk over because the score blows out.
I guess one thing that has been proven is that when the pressure is on BB won't bottle it and put away his natural attacking game.
I think that is a good thing because it is the way the ABs best. -
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I think the Wallabies have got better as the season has progressed. I think they defend a lot better now, and with more sting, than when we fingered them early on. It's a pity for them that Genia isn't playing, as he and Cooper had started to look more dangerous.
Phipps has not gotten near his form of 2015, that's for sure. Hopefully the responsibility, combined with the knowledge that a few young halfbacks are pressing their claims* helps him put in a good performance.
Also need a better game plan than "Attack channel 2". I think a close-in offloading game is the only way to take on the ABs at the moment, but it relies on all the passes sticking or you're going to get fisted.
You have to play your best game to win. And it would be nice if the ABs played their worst.
*Jake Gordon from NSW Country, for example, is having a fucking stellar NRC. It isn't even Super Rugby, but he is making a lot of experienced players look stupid, and not always behind a dominant forward pack.
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I read an interview with Hansen shortly before the ABs flew home from RSA in which he talked about players getting three days off personal fitness when they got home (i.e. last week) and then the team coming together as late as Tuesday lunchtime (i.e. tomorrow) to prepare for this weekend's test match.
I understand that the team is chugging along okay, and clearly the players have demonstrated an innate understanding of our structures and our game on both sides of the ball. We are also not new to playing Straya this year.
And Eden Park.
The point I'm making is that this game is the precursor to achieving a huge milestone (probably), but our build up is shorter than normal - I believe they'd normally meet on a Sunday after brunch with Jegga - and we didn't play the week before.
Shag is beyond reproach and his preparation tends to work. However, is is it "risky" to disrupt our normal build-up as he seems to be doing? Is it simply a function to combat the players' physical tiredness, complacency or mental staleness? Or is he undercooking or depowering the team for this game to test out the players.
I'm not saying he's taking the piss out of the Yellow Peril, but it seems a little curious to me with the pencils being sharpened for the record book.
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