All Blacks 2025
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To not pick DMac as starting first five is plain silly.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
he is inferior
Jordie is good but SA alone have De Allende and Esterhuizen who are better than him
Now that's a deluded take if I ever saw one - I remember distinctly those 2 guys couldn't make an impact against NZ teams when they were in Super Rugby, their teams were also made whipping our boys.
And it's possibly no coincidence the Canes with Jordie last year finished the robin 1st with a whopping +199 points differential & are now sitting 7th... without him.
Post of the year, talking about super rugby from 5 years ago in the ABs 2025 thread.
If we judged Ma'a Nonu purely on Super form he'd be a journeyman.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
No he is not eligible until after he's played in the NPC
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
What's Tangitau's D like? Genuine question.
Perhaps given you've got to be reasonable in 7s maybe ok?
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
Clarke is 10 times the player Leicester has ever been, and should be a lock for the #11 jumper. Leicester's stocks appear to have risen dramatically given his only performance in black has been an error ridden poor one. Great to have players returning to NZ but I really don't see Leicester as a solution to any of our backline problems. Inconsistent is the word that springs to mind with him.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
Clarke is 10 times the player Leicester has ever been, and should be a lock for the #11 jumper. Leicester's stocks appear to have risen dramatically given his only performance in black has been an error ridden poor one. Great to have players returning to NZ but I really don't see Leicester as a solution to any of our backline problems. Inconsistent is the word that springs to mind with him.
Yeah definite Charlie Ngatai syndrome with him. He hasn’t exactly been missed with CC, Jordan, Telea and even Reece doing the job.
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I wouldn't call LF inconsistent, at least I don't remember him that way. I do remember him being a bit slow for a winger, and not being the best passer when playing in the midfield. Unless he has improved his passing game a great deal, I don't see him adding too much at AB level.
Will be handy for the Saders though.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
de Groot was dropped for all the important games on the EOYT. Tosi was preffered over Newell.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
Clarke is 10 times the player Leicester has ever been, and should be a lock for the #11 jumper. Leicester's stocks appear to have risen dramatically given his only performance in black has been an error ridden poor one. Great to have players returning to NZ but I really don't see Leicester as a solution to any of our backline problems. Inconsistent is the word that springs to mind with him.
Yep. Clarke has worked hard on his game and is a way better player than 2 years ago. Absolute lock-in for me.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
I wouldn't call LF inconsistent, at least I don't remember him that way. I do remember him being a bit slow for a winger, and not being the best passer when playing in the midfield. Unless he has improved his passing game a great deal, I don't see him adding too much at AB level.
Will be handy for the Saders though.
Sounds like a perfect guy to rotate with Jordie, no one will notice the difference
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This post is deleted!
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
All those combinations created over a long period of time is exactly what we are missing today.
Maybe... but I wouldn't say this All Blacks side lacks experience. I think the best All Blacks 23 in the eyes of most at the end of last year (with what is still available now) would look something like: Williams, Taylor, Lomax, S Barrett, Vaa'i, Finau, Savea, Sititi, Roigard, McKenzie, Clarke, Barrett, Ioane, Tele'a, Jordan, Taukei'aho, de Groot, Newell, Tuipulotu, Lakai, Ratima, Barrett, Lienert-Brown.
You can argue the finer point for the odd change here, but the general sentiment is most of those guys were at the 2023 RWC, and of that starting side, only a handful don't have 20 test appearances.
The argument for time in the saddle is fair for youngsters, but Samapeni Finau will be 26 when he next steps out for the All Blacks, having not yet done anything of note. You contrast that to Wallace Sititi (and to a lesser extent Peter Lakai in his two appearances), who took to it like a duck to water last year. I kind of think this just says better players do adapt.
In the absence of a better option, I wouldn't mind if they gave Finau another go, but if he doesn't perform, the coaches shouldn't take the blame - and neither should Finau. It might just be an example of some of these guys not being quite good enough.
Isn't Leicester back for the test season? I'd rather see him, Tangitau & Timoci Tawatawa... than Telea & Clarke. Enough of these defensively frail wingers please.
Clarke is 10 times the player Leicester has ever been, and should be a lock for the #11 jumper. Leicester's stocks appear to have risen dramatically given his only performance in black has been an error ridden poor one. Great to have players returning to NZ but I really don't see Leicester as a solution to any of our backline problems. Inconsistent is the word that springs to mind with him.
You seem to have blotted 2023 from your memory NQ.
In 2022, Leicester played two tests against Ireland. The first he was actually pretty good. I recall this, because when he got picked I told y'all he wasn't test ready. I got a serve or two after that test. Second test he wasn't test ready. He spent the rest of the season holding tackle bags while Caleb laboured through Fozzie's annus horribilis. Caleb probably wasn't test ready either!
2023 though, he'd markedly improved, got picked for the ABs, played five games including at the World Cup. When Mark T. blotted his copybook and got suspended for the Ireland QF - Fozzie and Schmidt picked Big Leicester to play Ireland, so he'd clearly supplanted Caleb at that point.
Then he went overseas. Caleb had a great 2024. I don't really watch euro club rugby so I can't tell you if Leicester has improved as much as Caleb. Would be good for us if he has.
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yeah I'd have thought they'd be more keen to use Big L at 13 and off the bench as a utility than an out and out wing. I'd have thought his midfield nous should have improved overseas. Will be interesting to see if/how they value him/his OE.
