Current depth at 10
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@gt12 said in Current depth at 10:
@reprobate said in Current depth at 10:
Plummer could have stuck around if he wanted to, leaving after one good season is on him. Beauden is old, and McKenzie is little.
If Perofeta wanted to play 10 for the ABs, he needed to move to a team where he would play regularly. I personally don't think he's even proven himself at super or npc level at 10.Little schmittle. I'd take Aaron Cruden in a heartbeat.
We are fine with Dmac, if the coaches actually consider their attack and how it could suit his passing game.
On Barrett, I agree he's old. But Sexton was still just as much of a fluffybunny at 36, so Barrett has something to chase there.
McKenzie is, by miles, the best 10 in the country. But he is small, and injury is a possibility. Beauden is a rubbish 10 to my eyes - but my point is both of those guys have earned their spots through multiple seasons of performance, and it's not like the 10 jersey for the ABs is locked up by Dan Carter for the next decade - if Plummer wanted to have a crack, now is the prime time to do that, not fuck off o/s after one good season. It's not like he's Nick Evans or Carlos stuck forever behind the incumbent - he has nothing to complain about whatsoever.
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@handa457 Anything that has as a benefit extending Beauden's playing career sounds a bit dubious to me, I'd knock 30 odd caps (at 10) off it if I could.
When has Perofeta ever locked down a starting spot at 10, at any level? He can't even demand that jersey for the 'naki and you think he should have more opportunities at AB level?Building depth is great, but spreading talent across the Super teams (which makes a lot of sense) needs to come first. Quality players on the bench or in the stands is just stupid, but you can't pick guys for the ABs who don't start in that position at the level below.
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@SBW1 There have been talks to try and get RM back since Robertson became ABs Coach. The snag is that RM really likes living and playing in Japan and seems content to represent Tonga at the next World Cup. It would be foolish to assume he's coming back.
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@sparky said in Current depth at 10:
@SBW1 There have been talks to try and get RM back since Robertson became ABs Coach. The snag is that RM really likes living and playing in Japan and seems content to represent Tonga at the next World Cup. It would be foolish to assume he's coming back.
Makes us look desperate almost begging him to return. We need to move on and build with what we have
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@canefan said in Current depth at 10:
@sparky said in Current depth at 10:
@SBW1 There have been talks to try and get RM back since Robertson became ABs Coach. The snag is that RM really likes living and playing in Japan and seems content to represent Tonga at the next World Cup. It would be foolish to assume he's coming back.
Makes us look desperate almost begging him to return. We need to move on and build with what we have
Yep, he's not DC, he's not even peak AC or BB either. I'm not sure he's even 2003 era Carlos. He seems to be the only player in this country who is rated on his Super career rather than his AB career.
The moment he left he should never have been mentioned again. If Razor wanted him he should have convinced him to stay. It's pretty embarrassing all round.
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@reprobate said in Current depth at 10:
@handa457 Anything that has as a benefit extending Beauden's playing career sounds a bit dubious to me, I'd knock 30 odd caps (at 10) off it if I could.
When has Perofeta ever locked down a starting spot at 10, at any level? He can't even demand that jersey for the 'naki and you think he should have more opportunities at AB level?Building depth is great, but spreading talent across the Super teams (which makes a lot of sense) needs to come first. Quality players on the bench or in the stands is just stupid, but you can't pick guys for the ABs who don't start in that position at the level below.
Whilst I might agree with this, historically, multiple AB coaching teams (and the current ones seem to be even worse with their Crusader bias) have been happy to select reserves (even beyond the 23 at times).
So, there is no reason for player migration to other teams unless the player is likely to see very very little time (e.g., outside backs).
If you are likely to see minutes off the bench, why move?
I don't feel like this thread is about AB 1st fives at all, it seems to be a moan about player distribution.
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@gt12 said in Current depth at 10:
@reprobate said in Current depth at 10:
@handa457 Anything that has as a benefit extending Beauden's playing career sounds a bit dubious to me, I'd knock 30 odd caps (at 10) off it if I could.
When has Perofeta ever locked down a starting spot at 10, at any level? He can't even demand that jersey for the 'naki and you think he should have more opportunities at AB level?Building depth is great, but spreading talent across the Super teams (which makes a lot of sense) needs to come first. Quality players on the bench or in the stands is just stupid, but you can't pick guys for the ABs who don't start in that position at the level below.
Whilst I might agree with this, historically, multiple AB coaching teams (and the current ones seem to be even worse with their Crusader bias) have been happy to select reserves (even beyond the 23 at times).
So, there is no reason for player migration to other teams unless the player is likely to see very very little time (e.g., outside backs).
If you are likely to see minutes off the bench, why move?
I don't feel like this thread is about AB 1st fives at all, it seems to be a moan about player distribution.
At 10 though? It's one thing to pick a prop who can scrum well and lift in a lineout off the bench, or a hooker who can throw accurately - but the core role at 10 is game management. How can you possibly judge that in a bench player: you never actually get to see them manage a game?
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@canefan None of them have kicked on recently or are too young. Josh McKay ended up as a fullback/wing. Neither the 2018 and 2019 10s Cullen Moody or Ollie Lewis played NPC.
Alex Harford and James White both played NPC but that's it. Presume White will end up in the full Crusaders squad next year perhaps if JOC doesn't play on.
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we don't really have a depth problem, it's just that nobody likes the players that are selected. We have two vastly experienced options at 10, which is a luxury. The problem is that half the country hates one of them, and the other half hates the other guy.
Then throw in the fact that they are always available, meaning very few opportunities for anyone else.
Then throw in the fact that, especially in DMacs case, they are far and away the standouts at the 2nd tier level. It's not like there is a guy absolutely beating the door down behind them.
Then throw in the fact that the NZ public is absolutely not going to stand for picking some scrub at 10 to "build depth" if it results in a loss. NZ coaches have got far more conservative in this area.There is sort of the same issue in other spots. Take #8. We have no depth there because the guy who owns the shirt is always available and plays 80 minutes every week.
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@reprobate said in Current depth at 10:
@gt12 said in Current depth at 10:
@reprobate said in Current depth at 10:
@handa457 Anything that has as a benefit extending Beauden's playing career sounds a bit dubious to me, I'd knock 30 odd caps (at 10) off it if I could.
When has Perofeta ever locked down a starting spot at 10, at any level? He can't even demand that jersey for the 'naki and you think he should have more opportunities at AB level?Building depth is great, but spreading talent across the Super teams (which makes a lot of sense) needs to come first. Quality players on the bench or in the stands is just stupid, but you can't pick guys for the ABs who don't start in that position at the level below.
Whilst I might agree with this, historically, multiple AB coaching teams (and the current ones seem to be even worse with their Crusader bias) have been happy to select reserves (even beyond the 23 at times).
So, there is no reason for player migration to other teams unless the player is likely to see very very little time (e.g., outside backs).
If you are likely to see minutes off the bench, why move?
I don't feel like this thread is about AB 1st fives at all, it seems to be a moan about player distribution.
At 10 though? It's one thing to pick a prop who can scrum well and lift in a lineout off the bench, or a hooker who can throw accurately - but the core role at 10 is game management. How can you possibly judge that in a bench player: you never actually get to see them manage a game?
I’m not defending it, I’m pointing out that the AB coaches haven't cared if they judge the players to be a class above.
We had DC, Slade, and Taylor all make the ABs as 10s while at the Saders.
More recently, Barrett, Perofeta, Plummer at the Blues.
It’s not new.
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Does our school rugby system promote the ongoing development of strong 10s?
The really strong rugby schools tend to have absolute units in the midfield, or the slightly bigger creative kids who get a bit more space to operate.
All the young 10s need to do in the good teams is kick ok and set up the attacking weapons they have in their backlines. Sure we develop a handful of decent ones every few years. It just seems like talent in the midfield and on the wings lessens the need for a quality 10 through the development years.
Some of the quicker kids end up at fullback as well. As they are more likely to be the guys who can run into space and exploit defences.
Then we they get to club or provincial level, everyone is the same size and they then have to properly run a backline more than just throw the ball to 105 kg 12s or wingers that can go expectionally quick over 40m.
A lot of the guys we have around at the moment are probably better 15s than they are 10sz it is just they are our best 10s. Barrett, McKenzie, Perofeta, Love, Godfrey...
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Super rugby success requires a run and gun 10 as well. Open fast footy played for the most part on hard tracks. If the comp dragged in to winter it might be different, but really you play on top of the ground with a heap of space. An adequate kicking game is required, but you win the comp with your legs and your passing game.
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@MacDazzler said in Current depth at 10:
@canefan None of them have kicked on recently or are too young. Josh McKay ended up as a fullback/wing. Neither the 2018 and 2019 10s Cullen Moody or Ollie Lewis played NPC.
Alex Harford and James White both played NPC but that's it. Presume White will end up in the full Crusaders squad next year perhaps if JOC doesn't play on.
White played well for Canterbury in the games I saw last year. Found it very odd he wasn't one of the three first fives in the main squad.
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@mariner4life we seem to play like we are on hard and fast tracks regardless of the conditions or game situation.
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@taniwharugby said in Current depth at 10:
@mariner4life we seem to play like we are on hard and fast tracks regardless of the conditions or game situation.
when you are under pressure you revert to what you know
