All Blacks 2025
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
a lot effluent in their praise for them
Maybe it does...
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
What had Rassie and Jacques whatsiafsce achieved as international coaches before the won the World Cup in 2019?
The fact is they have created their reputation through World Cup wins. Not before.
Felix Jones is a good coach. But is now elevated to genius because the team he worked with managed to win a World Cup by 1 point when absolutely everything went their way in the final.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
I didn't mention Love in that sentence.... It was a general comment
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
I didn't mention Love in that sentence.... It was a general comment
I thought you were referring to him in your reply.
It’s a real shame he is out for half of super as I really wanted him to go up another notch with his play after being in the AB environment this year.
I think his speed and all round ability gives us a better option at 15 with WJ at 14. Will Jordan is unstoppable when put into a gap but I worry about him at 15 in a really big game like a RWC knockout match.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
What had Rassie and Jacques whatsiafsce achieved as international coaches before the won the World Cup in 2019?
The fact is they have created their reputation through World Cup wins. Not before.
Felix Jones is a good coach. But is now elevated to genius because the team he worked with managed to win a World Cup by 1 point when absolutely everything went their way in the final.
Wrong. Jones was also part of the group in 2019 as well, he was also invited into the Irish coaching setup by Schmidt because he had such an astute rugby brain, he was basically Ben Smith of Ireland but got too many career injuries so made the transition into coaching very early on, Schmidt rates him extremely highly, as does every player you ask.
Rassie had taken the Cheetahs to their first Currie Cup title in 26 years, a team with very modest talent, Jacques coached the Stormers to the best defense in SR and Rassie coached Munster to great success with Jacques coaching the defense again. They were highly regarded coaches before they got their SA roles - they were already considered the top coaches from their country at the time.......... Can you say the same for Holland & Ellison?
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Look at Rassie's CV before he got the job in 2018:
2004–2006 Free State Cheetahs
2006–2007 Cheetahs
2007 South Africa (Technical Adviser)
2007–2010 Western Province
2008–2011 Stormers
2011 South Africa (Technical Specialist)
2016–2017 Munster -
2008–2014 Western Province (Assistant/Defence coach)
2008–2014 Stormers (Assistant/Defence coach)
2011–2016 South Africa (Assistant coach)
2016–2017 Munster (Assistant coach)
2018–2019 South Africa (Assistant coach)
2020–2023 South Africa
2023– Leinster (Senior coach) -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Underwhelming, yes, but certainly not as bad as Foster's first year.
Robertson helmed 14 Tests in his 1st year and compared to Foster's first 14 Tests, it's worse. (72% win ratio compared to c. 77% for Foster).
But the fact we're even discussing this point really is the big issue, isn't it?
I'd like to see a list of those opposing teams though - I suspect we played higher-ranked teams and in their country more often.
QED...
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew Christie was dropped wasn't he?
Sititi, agree, continuing superb selections that injury forced in the past few years.
Seems both of these last coaching groups lacked a bit of forward thinking and were far too conservative unless the cards they were dealt forced them to be otherwise.
With Roigard, Sititi, Lakai, Aumua, Holland...... hopefully Jacomb & Love in the squad, and others coming through Super Rugby, the All Blacks are going to have a bright future regardless of the coaching group.......
The gap between Lakai (v France) and Cane was huge. Razor speaks experience, but there is good and bad experience. Seriously, in the test v Aus at the cake tin I would have given Sam a 1, and that was because it was his 100th game. I went back and watched the full game, with full attention on Sam and just shook my head.
Would Sititi have gotten a run if Blackadder was not injured? How many games would the ABs have won without Sititi? Lakai only got a run as Cane got injured. And all of a sudden we had a 7 that had speed to the ball, great on attack, great on defence. Taylor gets injured, Aumua runs on gets serious time and we see his potential.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
As long as he's a placeholder for our new young 10 and not the overhyped Cantab who chose overseas.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
Bro, come on, don't rewrite history, Foster was the number 3 name on that coaching list, Cron was a specific scrum coach.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
What had Rassie and Jacques whatsiafsce achieved as international coaches before the won the World Cup in 2019?
The fact is they have created their reputation through World Cup wins. Not before.
Felix Jones is a good coach. But is now elevated to genius because the team he worked with managed to win a World Cup by 1 point when absolutely everything went their way in the final.
Wrong. Jones was also part of the group in 2019 as well, he was also invited into the Irish coaching setup by Schmidt because he had such an astute rugby brain, he was basically Ben Smith of Ireland but got too many career injuries so made the transition into coaching very early on, Schmidt rates him extremely highly, as does every player you ask.
Rassie had taken the Cheetahs to their first Currie Cup title in 26 years, a team with very modest talent, Jacques coached the Stormers to the best defense in SR and Rassie coached Munster to great success with Jacques coaching the defense again. They were highly regarded coaches before they got their SA roles - they were already considered the top coaches from their country at the time.......... Can you say the same for Holland & Ellison?
Not wrong at all.
Razor has 7 SR titles before he even coached international rugby. Rassie had shit compared to him. He was awful in his first year and was going to resign if they lost the Wellington match in 2018.
Holland and Ellison will have 4 years international experience before the next World Cup. It’s pointless comparing them to Rassie and Neinaber.
Holland has 14 years experience of coaching. I’m not really sure what else he needs to have done to get an international coaching gig.
Stop moaning about shit that is yet to happen.
Fair enough about felix jones but he had fuck all experience before 2019. Far less than the guys you are complaining about.
Hey, did you hear about that Tamito Ellison bloke? He got invited to coach the all blacks because he had such an astute rugby brain 👍
Rassie Erasmus - Wikipedia