All Blacks v France
-
Probably the biggest standout out for me is that not one Northern Hemisphere TV outlet knows how to follow rugby with a camera. Although the French may have done this on purpose so that the TMOs found it harder to get camera angles. Too many distant or spider cam angles, really delayed irrelevant replays etc.
Interestingly on the TMO piece, we have been schooled through the last few years about tackle accuracy, normally on the wrong end of it too, but I felt this ref was 5 years too late for his interpretations. The French this time lucky he largely refrained from using the whistle and for most of the early part of the game using his earpiece.
Still not overly upset strangely after losing that one, was a great game of rugby. Lots of positives. Our forwards were strong at set piece early, our defensive lineout was immense with many steals, just execution through the hands on attack largely let us down in the end.
I dont know if Reece lacks top end speed, or it was just lack of effort. Either way it didn't look good. I still don't largely agree in principal removing a wing tactically (unless in this case it looked like through disinterest)
Jordan either hit the line too flat (dropped ball for the try) or over corrected too late and potentially missed a late opportunity on the right wing. Was not his best performance either.
I think I understand the motive of playing BB against England, however DMac should have been starting here.
Looks like we have largely worked out how to create an impact bench, although Ratima probably would like to reflect on his efforts this week.
Lakai did not look out of place either, would have really liked to have seen how the Finau, Sitili, Savea combo worked, but we were not given a chance and unlikely this week.
Anyway, one more game and hopefully they don't bring out everyone in the squad. Probably a chance to try or continue a few new combinations, often discovered via injury this year, but promising signs
-
I think one thing that was pointed out at the post match presser was that the ABs 'didn't get the chance to have the game at speed and fatigue the opposition' is a big worry. Relying on that is stupid, cos depsite WR clocks and speed up efforts, teams can slow games right down so easily. Look how long each scrum took this time? 30 seconds my arse a minute for each one, even the ABs scrums. Fake injuries to fatties, just standing up at the scrum before engage, etc. It is a stupid thing to even think of relying on, you've got to have a very well practised Plan B that is based on a very slow game. Esp as the vast majority of big games, RWC games, are grind fests and slow as fuck.
-
Late to the thread, but lots of encouragement up front.
Hot take: nothing wrong with taking the 3 with 5 to go. You get the ball back ... and the task is then to advance it 40 metres downfield and win a penalty when the opposition are at their tiredest. We in fact got the ball and moved it well - just blew the last pass/catch with BB/RI.
I do not think it is necessarily as stupid a decision as people are saying, particularly the media.
Y'all should also apologise to @Bones; he's been consistent with his observations of Will Jordan - elite in some facets, but missing some bits that make great Test fullbacks. That's not a hit on Will, just that he's a better wing where the things he isn't as good at don't get exposed so much.
Overall, a pretty decent tour, but we're not slam dunks to dominate yet. Lots of promising signs though, roll on Italy and then 2025
-
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
Let's not compare to the previous 4 years where against the big teams we were a genuine DISTANT second each time and looked like we needed them to capitulate for us to have a chance.
Actually against the big teams we were a lot like we have been this year. Looking world beaters one minute and utter chumps the next.
First half performance was probably the best we have played this year, but you didn't have to be a soothsayer to predict where the issues would arise. Roberston is such a naturally conservative coach. This seems to rub off on the team too. When his absolutely brilliant plan A doesn't work, he's clueless and so is the team.
Beauden - fuck surely even his super fluffers can see he's a liability in the team at first 5 and at FB. He's still a naturally gifted footy player but the flashes of brilliance come about 140 minutes apart nowadays.
Jordan has no footballing brain or awareness. Put him on the wing as a finisher and fid a proper fullback.
I've never been a massive DMac fan but he is streets ahead of BB and I reckon Razors love child Richie too.
I was in favour of taking the three points on offer - except for the last one. Although I wasn't massively disappointed then either as I didn't have much confidence that we would manufacture a try either. The best, most likely outcome from going for the line for me would have been a lineout penalty. So still a point behind and less time to play.
We are making baby steps forward. Reasonably happy with the forwards both starters and bench but still massive issues at 10/12/13/15 IMO. Progress is being hampered by poor selections.
Assuming we beat Italy the season would get a pass from me, if we hadn't lost badly to Argentina. Two close matches against the Bok offset by one dismal display against the Wobblies.
Bit of luck and we could have picked up two wins in SA, but with a different bounce of the ball we could also have lost 3-0 (undeservably but still lost) to the Poms.
So a report card that says 4.5/10 needs to apply self better and eliminate distrations sounds about right to me.
-
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v France:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
Let's not compare to the previous 4 years where against the big teams we were a genuine DISTANT second each time and looked like we needed them to capitulate for us to have a chance.
Actually against the big teams we were a lot like we have been this year. Looking world beaters one minute and utter chumps the next.
I'd actually disagree. Against the big teams last cycle we never looked like world beaters.
That's why it was so depressing. We looked like we never had a chance, imo.
Agree to disagree.
-
I'm also confused by this narrative that we were cowards for taking the 3, and it was un-All Black like.
To me it seems much more brave and confident to say "We're not going to camp out here and hope to sneak a try in with pick and go or maul for the next 5 minutes.
Instead, we're so confident we can get back here and you can't stop us getting here, that we'll take the 3 and be back here within 5 minutes to win the game."
Which btw we actually did get back near their 22 within the 5 minutes, only for Beauden/Rieko to screw up.
I guess Scott didn't take that into account unfortunately.
-
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
I'm also confused by this narrative that we were cowards for taking the 3, and it was un-All Black like.
To me it seems much more brave and confident to say "We're not going to camp out here and hope to sneak a try in with pick and go or maul for the next 5 minutes.
Instead, we're so confident we can get back here and you can't stop us getting here, that we'll take the 3 and be back here within 5 minutes to win the game."
Which btw we actually did get back near their 22 within the 5 minutes, only for Beauden/Rieko to screw up.
I guess Scott didn't take that into account unfortunately.
Not sure if anyone on here has called them cowards, it was definitely not a cowardly move. I just think it was a stupid call.
What would the French have preferred? Defending a lineout 5-10 metres from their line and potentially being pinned in their red zone for the next few minutes, or to be 1 point ahead with a deep kickoff into the opposition half against a team that doesn't exit well? I think they would have been extremely relieved when we took the 3.
-
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v France:
Assuming we beat Italy the season would get a pass from me, if we hadn't lost badly to Argentina. Two close matches against the Bok offset by one dismal display against the Wobblies.
This, along with the continued picking of past it/never been it players means this year is not a pass for me. I expected Razor to
- Use the time to blood more young uns not forced by injury
- Related to above, not do favourite region and senitmental picks
- Change our 'play at speed to win' gameplan to a more test sensible just smash the fuckers like the saders gameplan. I will take winning over looking pretty every day. I'd prefer both, but the skill sets and fitness difference isn't there anymore - and won't be ever again
-
@kev said in All Blacks v France:
@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:
I think it's time for the Barrett brothers gimmick to be put to bed. Scott isn't the answer at captain, Beauden is out of date by a couple of seasons and Jordie barely gets a pass mark.
The 3 points with 5 to go is a pathetic call.
Also, anybody know what Havilli has added to this tour? Instagram shows me he's doing nothing but playing golf? Probably best, if he were playing he'd be throwing intercept passes.
They each stand on their own merits.
Scott looks like a good captain to me. Measured and one of our best players every game.
BB reverts to type and chooses the kick option too much. These were all poor:
- half time drop goal
- cross kick to Reece
- grubber in their 22
Jordie is Jordie.
sorry.....says they all stand on their own merits...then lists the players name as a merit...12s have to be named jordie?
-
@akan004 said in All Blacks v France:
Not sure if anyone on here has called them cowards, it was definitely not a cowardly move. I just think it was a stupid call.
Yeah not here, seemed to be passed around some of the media.
@akan004 said in All Blacks v France:
What would the French have preferred? Defending a lineout 5-10 metres from their line and potentially being pinned in their red zone for the next few minutes, or to be 1 point ahead with a deep kickoff into the opposition half against a team that doesn't exit well? I think they would have been extremely relieved when we took the 3.
I think we made the right choice. We had been in their 22 multiple times most of the game and failed to score. We hadnt scored a try since the Roigard individual play, which was 50 minutes earlier.
If we go for the lineout there, and then WE get penalized trying to score, France kick it down field with possession and we're now down 4 with a minute left with near no chance of winning.
Instead we take the 3 on offer, and then get back to their 22 (which we did) and then the french can't even risk being aggressive at the breakdown or offside or the game is over.
That's my perception of it. If we were more clinical in the 22 during the game I would have said go for the lineout, but we weren't.
I believe Scott felt more comfortable attacking from within our half to get back to their half and then only need a penalty, than he did actually getting past the tryline, which is how the entire game had gone really.
-
@junior said in All Blacks v France:
If Razor has half a brain, over the next 3 years, we will become much more a 10 man rugby team, that scores tries off mauls, close in running and chaos ball counter attacks.
Sounds like the style of a certain Super rugby coach
-
@akan004 said in All Blacks v France:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
I'm also confused by this narrative that we were cowards for taking the 3, and it was un-All Black like.
To me it seems much more brave and confident to say "We're not going to camp out here and hope to sneak a try in with pick and go or maul for the next 5 minutes.
Instead, we're so confident we can get back here and you can't stop us getting here, that we'll take the 3 and be back here within 5 minutes to win the game."
Which btw we actually did get back near their 22 within the 5 minutes, only for Beauden/Rieko to screw up.
I guess Scott didn't take that into account unfortunately.
Not sure if anyone on here has called them cowards, it was definitely not a cowardly move. I just think it was a stupid call.
What would the French have preferred? Defending a lineout 5-10 metres from their line and potentially being pinned in their red zone for the next few minutes, or to be 1 point ahead with a deep kickoff into the opposition half against a team that doesn't exit well? I think they would have been extremely relieved when we took the 3.
Don't know about the French, but Sir Richie would have been relieved.
Home
Access comprehensive player and match statistics for the All Blacks and Black Ferns. Explore career stats, player profiles, and historical data from New Zealand's iconic rugby teams.
At 26-22 down, Gavin Henson stepped up to put Wales one point behind with four minutes remaining. But they were unable to make any further headway.
McCaw said he was relieved at the Welsh captain's decision: "Wales could easily have had a crack at our line from their 76th-minute penalty if they had kicked for a line-out, but I was quite pleased that they went for goal because if they'd had a crack who knows what would have happened.
"It was a tough decision but they always say that in Test matches you take the points on offer. "But I guess for us there was a bit of relief that they took the shot at goal instead of going for the try."
-
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v France:
@akan004 said in All Blacks v France:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
I'm also confused by this narrative that we were cowards for taking the 3, and it was un-All Black like.
To me it seems much more brave and confident to say "We're not going to camp out here and hope to sneak a try in with pick and go or maul for the next 5 minutes.
Instead, we're so confident we can get back here and you can't stop us getting here, that we'll take the 3 and be back here within 5 minutes to win the game."
Which btw we actually did get back near their 22 within the 5 minutes, only for Beauden/Rieko to screw up.
I guess Scott didn't take that into account unfortunately.
Not sure if anyone on here has called them cowards, it was definitely not a cowardly move. I just think it was a stupid call.
What would the French have preferred? Defending a lineout 5-10 metres from their line and potentially being pinned in their red zone for the next few minutes, or to be 1 point ahead with a deep kickoff into the opposition half against a team that doesn't exit well? I think they would have been extremely relieved when we took the 3.
Don't know about the French, but Sir Richie would have been relieved.
Home
Access comprehensive player and match statistics for the All Blacks and Black Ferns. Explore career stats, player profiles, and historical data from New Zealand's iconic rugby teams.
At 26-22 down, Gavin Henson stepped up to put Wales one point behind with four minutes remaining. But they were unable to make any further headway.
McCaw said he was relieved at the Welsh captain's decision: "Wales could easily have had a crack at our line from their 76th-minute penalty if they had kicked for a line-out, but I was quite pleased that they went for goal because if they'd had a crack who knows what would have happened.
"It was a tough decision but they always say that in Test matches you take the points on offer. "But I guess for us there was a bit of relief that they took the shot at goal instead of going for the try."
So are we now the equivalent of 2004 Wales?
The shot at goal at that time did not sit well with me and it did not feel that it was part of the All Black DNA.
-
@kpkanz the points you make are why other posters feel it was an un-AB like decision. There are not many AB teams in history that wouldn't back themselves to kick for the corner and score a try to win it with 5 minutes on the clock. The fact that we did get back up field isn't evidence that it was a good decision; a lot has to go right to get all the way up field in one of the final plays and convert it into points, and as it turned out we got close but couldn't maintain it long enough. It's symptomatic of a game plan that isn't well suited to test footy.
If there is one positive to take from losing by 1, it's that hopefully this tour hasn't papered over the significant selection issues with this coaching team.
The biggest positive from this season is that we absolutely do have the cattle to be No. 1 again, but we need a much smarter game plan and much bolder selections from Razor and his team next season.
-
between that and the intercept where he was never getting away it's damning vision.
-
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France:
Y'all should also apologise to @Bones; he's been consistent with his observations of Will Jordan - elite in some facets, but missing some bits that make great Test fullbacks. That's not a hit on Will, just that he's a better wing where the things he isn't as good at don't get exposed so much.
Yeah look, Will can do some amazing stuff and fuck it's pretty to watch him in space. Just what annoys me is he still plays like that guy growing up who was bigger and better than everyone and so just grabbed the ball and did it on his own. It's not stuff that can't be worked on and I certainly would've hoped to see vast improvement this season - but there's nothing.
How is it that he's still consistently choosing selfish options, constantly overrunning players with the ball, etc? He doesn't value possession and just readily hands it back to the opposition.
If I could see even a tiny bit of improvement across his many seasons then I would be more comfortable, but he just doesn't appear to have any application or desire to improve - or he's not being taught well.
-
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@Bones devil's advocate - being played on the wing isn't the best way to develop his fullback skills.
It's not fullback skills though - it's rugby skills.
Besides which, where does he play all his rugby below test level? The list of players that successfully transitioned from the wing to fullback is surely longer than the unsuccessful. I can't really think of anyone, but that's me.
-
@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France:
Y'all should also apologise to @Bones; he's been consistent with his observations of Will Jordan - elite in some facets, but missing some bits that make great Test fullbacks. That's not a hit on Will, just that he's a better wing where the things he isn't as good at don't get exposed so much.
Yeah look, Will can do some amazing stuff and fuck it's pretty to watch him in space. Just what annoys me is he still plays like that guy growing up who was bigger and better than everyone and so just grabbed the ball and did it on his own. It's not stuff that can't be worked on and I certainly would've hoped to see vast improvement this season - but there's nothing.
How is it that he's still consistently choosing selfish options, constantly overrunning players with the ball, etc? He doesn't value possession and just readily hands it back to the opposition.
If I could see even a tiny bit of improvement across his many seasons then I would be more comfortable, but he just doesn't appear to have any application or desire to improve - or he's not being taught well.
Whilst I agree his best position is wing, some of the things you have attacked Will on are just plain silly. He sets up other players well, is definitely not selfish (don't know where that is coming from), and his defensive positioning is very good (could be more physical in the tackle of course).
His best position is wing I think because he doesn't have the kicking game or maybe even the decision nous for fullback I think (neither does Jordie on the decision front....). On the wing he can roam and not have the same responsibilities that limits a fullback from getting in the game.
