All Blacks v France

[kev]

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:

@Chris-B It's actually even worse because it actually paid off.

After the kick, we held the ball and then Dmac got us into their 22 with his break.

We had the ball hot on attack in their 22. At best score a try, or hold the ball and win a penalty to win the game.

So we actually had done all the hard work. Make the kick, and get back into their 22 attacking.

Then Beauden/Rieko screwed it up.

Just such a DUMB loss to a team we could have beat by 20 today.

BB never gets criticised in press for his kicking. It’s talked up as a tactical weapon. But we were making inroads with our carry and soft options that give the ball away are just stupid.

Reiko must drop the ball more than any other centre that has played for NZ. Great player in so many ways but hitting the line at 100 miles an hour doesn’t matter if you don’t secure the ball. The crash ball is a shit option for us at the moment.

[No Quarter]

@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:

@Machpants said in All Blacks v France:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France:

For the whole 'why take 3' argument

The only try we constructed was Lakai's in the first 10 minutes (Roigard's was a piece of individual brilliance)

And the killer French try was Vai'i triying to be too clever, hold that ball and we win

Harsh take, it was a regulation offload to a fullback in acres of space and he got his arm whacked just as he was releasing it.
We had offloaded all day to good effect, I'm not whacking for it no matter how bad the result.

That whack of the arm was probably a 14 point play.

I only caught the highlights so can't comment on the overall game too much, but on the wide shot for that one it showed Reece had a good angle to cover the ball but seemed to just be coasting back and got absolutely skinned by their left wing as if he was one of the fatties retreating. What on earth has happened to his pace? Is he carrying a niggle or has he just hit the magical age of 27 when AB outsides form just falls off a cliff? So disappointing to see an AB winger done like that, covering those types of kicks should be their bread and butter.

[antipodean]

@Jet said in All Blacks v France:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:

Congrats to France.

Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.

The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.

I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.

Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.

And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.

I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.

Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.

I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.

Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.

To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.

That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.

I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.

Jordan is a Test winger at best.

[antipodean]

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:

Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.

How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.

Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.

[Halfback]

@antipodean I don't think Jordan is the second coming a lot make him out to be, but he gets a pass mark this tour.

I love the counter attacking initiative against France, but he's not actually that good at it. I bet we would have seen more returns from high balls against France than counter attacking due to the new laws. Mind you, the ref was hopelessly out of depth.

I don't think selection is ruthless enough in the current squad. I remember when J. Savea showed up a little overweight to camp (at least that's what they said, he looked fine to me?) and was dropped, he was 26 and still had an unreal strike rate. We're seeing below par performances week in and week out from some of these blokes and nothing. Is Razor cutthroat enough?

[brodean]

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:

@Jet said in All Blacks v France:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:

Congrats to France.

Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.

The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.

I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.

Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.

And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.

I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.

Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.

I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.

Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.

To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.

That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.

I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.

Jordan is a Test winger at best.

Super Rugby 2024
Tackle %
81% Stevenson
70% Love

Tackle Per 80 Minutes
2.49 Stevenson
2.44 Love

Turnovers won per 80 Minutes
0.45 Stevenson
0 Love

[antipodean]

@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:

Is Razor cutthroat enough?

Not if they've played for the Crusaders.

[Halfback]

@antipodean I'm a Cantabrian and this resonates with even me. As I said earlier, what business does Havilli even have being in the squad? He played a handful of super rugby games this year, and in them he was a liability cough Waratahs game. Then he got injured and walks into the All Blacks. Might be one of the worst All Blacks I've seen.

That jersey could and should be filled by Love or Narawa

[Bones]

@brodean said in All Blacks v France:

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:

@Jet said in All Blacks v France:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:

Congrats to France.

Thought that was a cracking match as a fan, aside from the result.

The NH seem intent on over officiating rugby into the ground. Well, except of course for dummy runners taking out players. There was one play where dummy runners came through and connected with both ALB and Rieko and nothing.

I don't want to raise the hackles of the Cantabs and @Chris-B but I think @Bones is right, Jordan isn't the right fit at fullback. Maybe a finishing wing is his ceiling? Especially if he want so keep up his strike rate.

Also, Reece is out of form and in a year when Telea has copped shit over his speed then how are we picking a guy who makes a tugboat look fast. Posters on here have a meltdown if DMac even steps slightly across field yet Reece runs sideways constantly putting added pressure on our team frequently.

And not to leaves the Canes fluffers out, actually Moana now, are we happy with the not as good version of Savea we have now? Maybe a decent off season will get him back to his usual form. Conversely Roigard is actually living up to the hype of his Canes marketing team. Also Lakai put in a decent shift.

I think we overdid the successful sideline play that worked so well in the early stages of the game. There were times when there was space out wide yet we just kept turning it back inside. TBH, I think this is a NZ thing as I often notice our Super teams do it as well.

Weird that I'm not as upset as I should be with this loss.

I can understand the reservations about Jordan, but im not having Beaudy back there either.

Fuck that carry on. Give me Jordan any day.

To be fair to Will he got mullered a few times but never shied away from taking it into contact.

That's the standard now is it? Fucking hell. He makes poor decisions and his defence is average.

I'm no Canes fluffer, but I want to see Love given a chance if his form next year is good.

Jordan is a Test winger at best.

Super Rugby 2024
Tackle %
81% Stevenson
70% Love

Tackle Per 80 Minutes
2.49 Stevenson
2.44 Love

Turnovers won per 80 Minutes
0.45 Stevenson
0 Love

Yeah I don't get the dismissal of Stevenson on defence alone. He's got a great boot, actually looks to link and put his support players in a better position, plus has a fantastic combination with DMac. We don't know if he'd be as devastating on attack but fuck can we at least try and find out? I'd happily deal with defence almost as shit as Jordan's if he's actually doing more for the team everywhere else.

[Halfback]

@Bones He'd be playing for Leinster as one of their "project" players if he wasn't capped I'd say. He does remind me of Lowe with that boot.

[reprobate]

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:

Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.

How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.

Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.

Because it was a reply to a post about super rugby 10s and 15s kicking.
Why are you talking about both sides of the ball when kicking it means having it?

[nostrildamus]

Well you could always put Jordie back at 15 and try out Lam at 12

..but Love deserves next crack at 15 I reckon.

[nostrildamus]

and I quite liked Sullivan but haven't seen much of him over the last season

[antipodean]

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:

Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.

How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.

Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.

Because it was a reply to a post about super rugby 10s and 15s kicking.
Why are you talking about both sides of the ball when kicking it means having it?

Because that's the stated criteria for selection. So anyone with a booming boot who is a turnstile isn't likely to get a call up.

[canefan]

Is it just me, or has Jordan lost pace? Clarke looks like our fastest outside back by a mile

[nostrildamus]

@Frank said in All Blacks v France:

"Tupou Vai has stepped up has been staggering and it’s fair to say I haven’t always been a fan of Patty T but I will gladly eat humble pie on that take."

Perhaps Razor knows how to get the best out of players after all.

With Patty T I suspect it was Vern Cotter-he played like that in Super as well.

[Bones]

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:

Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.

How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.

Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.

Because it was a reply to a post about super rugby 10s and 15s kicking.
Why are you talking about both sides of the ball when kicking it means having it?

Because that's the stated criteria for selection. So anyone with a booming boot who is a turnstile isn't likely to get a call up.

So going off those stats, does that mean Love is excluded?

[nostrildamus]

@akan004 said in All Blacks v France:

Need to find a winger with top end pace to complement Clarke.

Gee I wonder if there is someone currently in the ABs as fast as Clarke who is in danger of losing his recent position...

Thinks...

[antipodean]

@Bones said in All Blacks v France:

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:

Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.

How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.

Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.

Because it was a reply to a post about super rugby 10s and 15s kicking.
Why are you talking about both sides of the ball when kicking it means having it?

Because that's the stated criteria for selection. So anyone with a booming boot who is a turnstile isn't likely to get a call up.

So going off those stats, does that mean Love is excluded?

If we believe them. I've seen enough of Stevenson to form an opinion on his defensive attributes. I'll watch Love more closely next year and if he's much the same no one should be in any doubt I'll call a spade a spade.

[MN5]

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:

Well you could always put Jordie back at 15 and try out Lam at 12

..but Love deserves next crack at 15 I reckon.

May as well go the whole hog and recall George Bridge for maximum lack of impact