Bledisloe II - Have a stab at the teams.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DMX" data-cid="608501" data-time="1471987618">
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<p>That was the thing , Toeva went from being first choice wing in starting XV to 3rd choice fullback, perhaps 4th or 5th choice wing in a matter of weeks. <strong>Simply unreliable in the big moments despite better physical gifts than everyone else.</strong></p>
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<p> </p>
<p>And there it is... I call absolute bullshit.</p>
<p>Yes, you and davidav repeated this ad nauseum but it doesn't make it truthful or accurate.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Toeava was man of the match and near man of the match in a number of big test matches. One in particular stands out where in a test match in the republic, we were getting thrashed, Toeava replaced Ma'a early in the second half and nearly singlehandedly turned the game around. Another was the semi-final for the Blues again in the republic, against the Bulls IIRC, where he again almost single handedly won that game for the Blues and it was basically lost when he went off injured.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One must also remember that in 2011 he'd been under an injury cloud with his nagging hip injury. He played in the RWC and had a good game against Tonga but agrivated the hip injury. Yes, he didn't feature much in the remainder of the tournament but that was due to the injury and was not form related.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was only after the 2011 RWC that his hip injury was properly diagnosed as a rear type of stress fracture and he went off the US to have corrective surgery. Turns out this stress fracture of the hip would have been there some time and it's quite remarkable he was able to perform at such a high level with that injury.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But to say that he didn't have big game temperment or "simply unreliable" is utter nonsense!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="608538" data-time="1471994972">
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<p>Unsure why we're even discussing players who aren't, or will ever be again in the squad.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>For Saturday, my guess is that they'll go for Tamanivalu and Fekitoa if they go for All Blacks experience. I doubt they'll move Smith to the midfield, so bascially they don't need McKenzie or Nanai. If they have the guts to go with a newbie, I hope they'll introduce ALB because he's been with the squad longer than Ioane, but Ioane is an exciting player so I wouldn't have a problem with him either. Now I think of it, I find it a far more exciting option than a Tamanivalu-Fekitoa combo, which somehow doesn't give me much confidence after the June series.</p>
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<p>I guess it depends a bit on whether they want Fekitoa to play second five or centre. My guess is that, since they called ALB into the squad first, they'll pair him with Fekitoa and maybe put Tamanivalu on the bench. I'd be pretty surprised to see Ioane feature anywhere.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Crockett, Coles, Franks, Retallick, Whitelock, Kaino, Cane, Read, Smith, Barrett, Savea, ALB, Fekitoa, Smith, Dagg</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hames, Parsons, Faumuina, Squire, Savea, Perenara, Cruden, Tamanivalu</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="608541" data-time="1471996125">
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<p>Well this just makes me grin when I read through it</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/83474224/paul-cully-owen-franks-sums-up-the-all-blacks-restless-ambition'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/83474224/paul-cully-owen-franks-sums-up-the-all-blacks-restless-ambition</a></p>
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<p>When I read that, I didn't know whether to shed a tear or chub-up... So I kinda did both as the chest swelled with pride.</p>
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<p>It was noticable in the game on the weekend that Franks certainly lifted his involvement and that angled run he made was probably his best run and most metre's gained in his entire 81 test career.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="608595" data-time="1472007270">
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<p>I guess it depends a bit on whether they want Fekitoa to play second five or centre. My guess is that, since they called ALB into the squad first, they'll pair him with Fekitoa and maybe put Tamanivalu on the bench. I'd be pretty surprised to see Ioane feature anywhere.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Crockett, Coles, Franks, Retallick, Whitelock, Kaino, Cane, Read, Smith, Barrett, Savea, ALB, Fekitoa, Smith, Dagg</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hames, Parsons, Faumuina, Squire, Savea, Perenara, Cruden, Tamanivalu</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>I would agree with this, but going with Foster's comments in the press conference, it almost seemed to indicate Tamanivalu is in line for a start, so i'm thinking 12 Fekitoa 13 Seta 23 ALB. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="RoninWC" data-cid="608596" data-time="1472007339">
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<p>When I read that, I didn't know whether to shed a tear or chub-up... So I kinda did both as the chest swelled with pride.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was noticable in the game on the weekend that Franks certainly lifted his involvement and that angled run he made was probably his best run and most metre's gained in his entire 81 test career.</p>
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<p>Without thinking too hard about it all of the following must be the best in the world in their position or very close to it:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Owen Franks</p>
<p>Dane Coles</p>
<p>Brodie Retallick</p>
<p>Sam Whitelock</p>
<p>Jerome Kaino</p>
<p>Sam Cane</p>
<p>Kieran Read</p>
<p>Aaron Smith</p>
<p>Beauden Barrett</p>
<p>Ben Smith</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="608538" data-time="1471994972">
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<p>Unsure why we're even discussing players who aren't, or will ever be again in the squad.</p>
<p> </p>
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<p>It's all good Stargazer. The fern threads have a natural flow* to them. The mods (who are those jokers anyway) don't trawl through every post to make sure it stays on topic. Just let things play out and if you don't like where that part of the discussion is going, post about something else.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:10px;">*a nice way of saying most of you are pretty random characters.... :)</span></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="608605" data-time="1472009552">
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<p>Without thinking too hard about it all of the following must be the best in the world in their position or very close to it:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Owen Franks</p>
<p>Dane Coles</p>
<p>Brodie Retallick</p>
<p>Sam Whitelock</p>
<p>Jerome Kaino</p>
<p>Sam Cane</p>
<p>Kieran Read</p>
<p>Aaron Smith</p>
<p>Beauden Barrett</p>
<p>Ben Smith</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Sean "I wouldn't pick one Wallaby in my ANZAC side" Fitzpatrick would probably agree with you :)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="RoninWC" data-cid="608590" data-time="1472005936">
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<p>And there it is... I call absolute bullshit.</p>
<p>Yes, you and davidav repeated this ad nauseum but it doesn't make it truthful or accurate.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Toeava was man of the match and near man of the match in a number of big test matches. One in particular stands out where in a test match in the republic, we were getting thrashed, Toeava replaced Ma'a early in the second half and nearly singlehandedly turned the game around. Another was the semi-final for the Blues again in the republic, against the Bulls IIRC, where he again almost single handedly won that game for the Blues and it was basically lost when he went off injured.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One must also remember that in 2011 he'd been under an injury cloud with his nagging hip injury. He played in the RWC and had a good game against Tonga but agrivated the hip injury. Yes, he didn't feature much in the remainder of the tournament but that was due to the injury and was not form related.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was only after the 2011 RWC that his hip injury was properly diagnosed as a rear type of stress fracture and he went off the US to have corrective surgery. Turns out this stress fracture of the hip would have been there some time and it's quite remarkable he was able to perform at such a high level with that injury.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But to say that he didn't have big game temperment or "simply unreliable" is utter nonsense!</p>
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<p>Agreed plus. Teh Fern is famous for repeating BS to a point it becomes a perverted truth. Look at the TJP crap that is served up. Toeava was one of my favorite players. He suffered from not playing a consistent position and primarily because he was that good and if he wasn't all that Hansen and Co would not have chosen him. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>In that SA game, the one where Carter served birthday cake to DeVilliers, Toeva made the game close.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="608529" data-time="1471994222">
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<p>After the Canada game in which he scored 4 tries, he pulled his hammy at training. That was the main reason why he didn't play more games.</p>
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<p>Wasnt that the last pool game and everyone else had played multiple times by then and it was his first ? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>it was obvious to everyone he was not part of their plans by that stage </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="608605" data-time="1472009552">
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<p>Without thinking too hard about it all of the following must be the best in the world in their position or very close to it:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Owen Franks</p>
<p>Dane Coles</p>
<p>Brodie Retallick</p>
<p>Sam Whitelock</p>
<p>Jerome Kaino</p>
<p>Sam Cane</p>
<p>Kieran Read</p>
<p>Aaron Smith</p>
<p>Beauden Barrett</p>
<p>Ben Smith</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>It's an interesting thought bubble to surmise what other nations players might fare if they spent some time in a Super Rugby franchise and the All Blacks environment.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="broughie" data-cid="608615" data-time="1472012984">
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<p>Agreed plus. Teh Fern is famous for repeating BS to a point it becomes a perverted truth. Look at the TJP crap that is served up. Toeava was one of my favorite players. He suffered from not playing a consistent position and primarily because he was that good and if he wasn't all that Hansen and Co would not have chosen him. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>In that SA game, the one where Carter served birthday cake to DeVilliers, Toeva made the game close.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>That is the one game he played where I thought he actually lived up to the hype. That was it. He played well in others (ppl talk about the HK game too), but that was the only game I thought he properly owned.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He didn't have a lot of things go his way (injuries, inconsistent positions), but he also never really did anything to deserve a permanent AB starting spot.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="608625" data-time="1472017915">
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<p>That is the one game he played where I thought he actually lived up to the hype. That was it. He played well in others (ppl talk about the HK game too), but that was the only game I thought he properly owned.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He didn't have a lot of things go his way (injuries, inconsistent positions), but he also never really did anything to deserve a permanent AB starting spot.</p>
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<p>He was simply sensational for the Blues. World class at Super level, outstanding going forward and punishing on defence. We missed him massively when he left.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="broughie" data-cid="608615" data-time="1472012984"><p>Agreed plus. Teh Fern is famous for repeating BS to a point it becomes a perverted truth. Look at the TJP crap that is served up. Toeava was one of my favorite players. He suffered from not playing a consistent position and primarily because he was that good and if he wasn't all that Hansen and Co would not have chosen him. <br><br>
In that SA game, the one where Carter served birthday cake to DeVilliers, Toeva made the game close.</p></blockquote>
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The fern is also famous for its knights in shining armour.... :)<br><br>
I liked Toeava as a player and his performance in the Republic for the Blues in a losing Semi was a masterclass of allround 2nd 5 play that is still memorable. <br><br>
However I don't buy the "not playing a consistent position because he was that good" argument. Plenty of backs have played multiple positions and still been able to thrive. <br><br>
The big thing for Ice was confidence. He always came across as a shy reserved sort of character - and that's fine and plenty of ABs have been like that - but that appeared to follow him on to the field. <br><br>
When he was aggressive and high on confidence he played accordingly. But then we saw games where he would drop a ball and then go into his shell and then he'd drop another. And the fans were out for blood. It happens all the time. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="nzzp" data-cid="608626" data-time="1472019580">
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<p>He was simply sensational for the Blues. World class at Super level, outstanding going forward and punishing on defence. We missed him massively when he left.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>The minimum standard for a squad All Black - which he was.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="608607" data-time="1472010069">
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<p>Sean "I wouldn't pick one Wallaby in my ANZAC side" Fitzpatrick would probably agree with you :)</p>
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<p>There's a few would make a contest of it - Folau, Warren Whitely, Itoje, Hartley among others - but even with bias it's not too far away from being a statement of fact. :)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="608627" data-time="1472019588">
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<p>
The big thing for Ice was confidence. He always came across as a shy reserved sort of character - and that's fine and plenty of ABs have been like that - but that appeared to follow him on to the field.<br><br>
When he was aggressive and high on confidence he played accordingly. But then we saw games where he would drop a ball and then go into his shell and then he'd drop another. And the fans were out for blood. It happens all the time.</p>
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<p>i agree with this, and further think it's the reason why picking him so young before he was ready, and consequently fucking his confidence was stupid. i know the consensus around here is that any criticism of henry is out of bounds, but that was fucking dumb. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="608632" data-time="1472020473">
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<p>There's a few would make a contest of it - Folau, Warren Whitely, Itoje, Hartley among others - but even with bias it's not too far away from being a statement of fact. :)</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>My world XV on last outings form : Brown - Smith Joseph Moala North - Barrett Smith - Vunipola Haskell Kaino - Retallick Itoje - Franks Coles Vunipola.</p>
<p>Moala is here because there are no other standouts at 2nd Five. Farrell is a good goalkicker but he brings nothing on attack while Hernandez is error prone and Jamie Roberts a shadow of his former self.</p> -
You lost me at Brown
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Folau was better than brown. Smith was better than brown. Dagg was better than brown in June (the last time brown played). Brown hasn't been great in a while.
