Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="607911" data-time="1471823680">
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Tim, NTA - cheers, but I want to watch the replay in HD on a big screen.
 
What is weird is that I can watch full replays of all the NPC matches this weekend.
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If you still havnt seen it , there is a replay tomorrow morning at 11.30 am

Mick Gold Coast QLD

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="607943" data-time="1471827573">
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As I understand it, Pocock can't be captain because of his conviction for hugging mining equipment. Just on him, his ability to pilfer the pill is second to none. But he does sweet FA else. He obviously can't be used in the lineout and offers zero with the ball in hand. Our props are probably more dangerous with the ball that he is. Even Franks.
 
I think the most positive thing is that they can only get better. That was the shittiest Aus display since the dark days of Greg Smith. Foley can be world class on his day, but can also have some horrible Barry Crockers.
 
Ultimately if they actually select a proper 8 who can also be used in the lineout and Foley and the backs get their shit together then they could still be an outside chance next week. I can't see the ABs backing that up. That first half was arguably the best half of rugby from an AB team. In terms of tactics and execution it was absolutely farking sublime. Reckon they would have cracked 60 if Crotty had stayed on and Barrett stayed at 10.
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I cannot see improvement sufficient to repel an All Blacks team which is just as likely to come out of the blocks just as quickly as they did last Saturday, or even 20% less quickly; which has developed handling skills and a determination to back up continuously to a level where it is now instinctive; with a mindset of "we are very good at what we do" and with a composure in the run on 15 which facilitates that. They too have something important to achieve, an improvement on the small errors they will have identified by now; and a bonus point and no bonus point to the other mob.
 
We do not have "a proper 8". We have a handful of mediocre performers who shuffle from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7 to 8 to 20 from week to week, from season to season, all of them under-sized, limited in their range of abilities; used and discarded many times then brought back in.
 
Foley and the backs can only hope to better anticipate where Beauden Barrett might sight the tiniest gap, which is near impossible edging backwards all the while, and to make their tackles. On Page 24 of this thread there is a photo of New Boy's tackling technique on Crotty which suggests that is not going to be easy to correct in a week. Include Cooper? They will have to improve their defensive effort another notch again.
 
I wonder who Steve Hansen might suggest to Ardie as a profitable target for him to run at flat out from the moment he comes on?
 
No, I cannot see anything much different to last week other than home ground, baying mob offering the li'l fella a special welcome (and falling about laughing); Savea wanting to prove his worth; Fekitoa putting on a more precise showing; one or more of newcomers Ioane, Tamanivalu, McKenzie, Parsons and Coltman determined to make their mark; Dagg hell bent on keeping McKenzie at arms length - that sort of thing.
 
I think there is another 35 points and more margin coming up!

nostrildamus

I agree regards Hoopah. But Foley and the midfield and the wings were also poor. And Genoa is a heavier slower clumsily shadow of his former self. 
So the point is not that the ABS won but Australia almost never looked competitive, sharp, opportunistic or threatening. THIS is very unusual.

nostrildamus

And although we are used to them being as physically dominating as Pee Wee Herman their tight forwards were not even that crafty..

Gary

Don't know where all this feel sorry for the Aussie rugby comes from you guys obviously can't remember the 1998 to 2003 and John O'Neil's ARU.

TeWaio

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="608081" data-time="1471853078">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/'>http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/</a>
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Reading this really makes me appreciate some moves made by the NZRFU in the past.
 
Sponsor on jersey = more money to pay players = less talent away in Europe = no temptation for a "Giteau rule" going into a World Cup = no erosion of domestic game / future prospects of national team / talent development.
 
They copped a lot of flak when AIG happened. But it was the right thing to do.

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="608081" data-time="1471853078">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/'>http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/08/22/giteaus-law-must-go-destroys-wallabies-culture/</a>
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None of the Giteau rule players stood up. It sends a bad message to the boys coming through, it doesn't work for the Saffas and it isn't working for the Wobs

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="608144" data-time="1471865203">None of the Giteau rule players stood up. It sends a bad message to the boys coming through, it doesn't work for the Saffas and it isn't working for the Wobs</blockquote>
 
Although the OZ one is fairly limited with the minimum tests played being so high, so it's not like the floodgates are opened up. 
I guess one way of looking at it is that those younger players need to work harder.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mick Gold Coast QLD" data-cid="608125" data-time="1471861428">
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I cannot see improvement sufficient to repel an All Blacks team which is just as likely to come out of the blocks just as quickly as they did last Saturday, or even 20% less quickly; which has developed handling skills and a determination to back up continuously to a level where it is now instinctive; with a mindset of "we are very good at what we do" and with a composure in the run on 15 which facilitates that. They too have something important to achieve, an improvement on the small errors they will have identified by now; and a bonus point and no bonus point to the other mob.
 
We do not have "a proper 8". We have a handful of mediocre performers who shuffle from 4 to 5 to 6 to 7 to 8 to 20 from week to week, from season to season, all of them under-sized, limited in their range of abilities; used and discarded many times then brought back in.
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I still say at some point (likely very soon) this kind of is Cheika's fault though. You can bemoan the lack of ready made players in certain positions when you first take over, but when the cupboard is empty you need to have a clear idea what skills you are demanding and then start building players towards that and start setting the expectations.
 
For the current game you need your loosie trio to be physical in both attack and defense, high technical skills at the breakdown, contributors at the line out and with very strong ball playing skills. You need all of those ideally, perhaps average in one, but aspiring to all. Legitimately Pocock has the breakdown skills - but little else as a trump suit as his speed declined his breakdown prowess is in question too. Is there an All Black starting forward with worse ball playing skills than him, perhaps Franks?
 
Cheika was gushing with praise for Pocock and Genia after the game. If you are going to praise Pocock after that game you are beyond help and your philosophy when it comes to the loose trio isn't in keeping with the modern game. More than likely Cheika doesn't have a strong conviction when it comes to what a loose trio should be - which is why he is happy running with a gimmick that was old hat a year ago. Deans was similar when he allowed himself to get roped into Radieke Samo as a genuine option at this level.
 
Someone mentioned Adam Thomson earlier and that is spot on for Pocock and Hoopah. Really unique skill set, as an all round player nowhere near dominant at test level.

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="608151" data-time="1471869290">
Although the OZ one is fairly limited with the minimum tests played being so high, so it's not like the floodgates are opened up. 
I guess one way of looking at it is that those younger players need to work harder.</blockquote>
 
Giteau rule is fine for a World Cup, but is simply a horrible decision at this part of the cycle. How shortsighted can you be?

akan004

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="608165" data-time="1471878531">
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 Legitimately Pocock has the breakdown skills - but little else as a trump suit as his speed declined his breakdown prowess is in question too.
 
Cheika was gushing with praise for Pocock and Genia after the game. If you are going to praise Pocock after that game you are beyond help and your philosophy when it comes to the loose trio isn't in keeping with the modern game. More than likely Cheika doesn't have a strong conviction when it comes to what a loose trio should be - which is why he is happy running with a gimmick that was old hat a year ago.
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To be fair, Pocock made four breakdown turnovers and was instrumental is slowing down the AB ball to a degree. I don't know what more you can expect from a number seven in a beaten pack than what Pocock offered on Saturday night. He was the only Wallaby player to outplay his opposition counterpart.

Bones

Ummm nope, Pocock didn't outplay Read.

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="akan004" data-cid="608167" data-time="1471883235">
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To be fair, Pocock made four breakdown turnovers and was instrumental is slowing down the AB ball to a degree. I don't know what more you can expect from a number seven in a beaten pack than what Pocock offered on Saturday night. He was the only Wallaby player to outplay his opposition counterpart.
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Problem is he was playing 8, as Bones notes. And Read showcased the skills most international 8's have, which Pocock doesn't.
 
Its no different to when the AB's tried to shoehorn Marty Holah & McCaw in & quickly decided that was dumb

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="akan004" data-cid="608167" data-time="1471883235">
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To be fair, Pocock made four breakdown turnovers and was instrumental is slowing down the AB ball to a degree. I don't know what more you can expect from a number seven in a beaten pack than what Pocock offered on Saturday night. He was the only Wallaby player to outplay his opposition counterpart.
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I think that kind of proves my point. Pocock played 8, not 7. That is what this whole thing is about the loose trio needs a specific balance that those two cannot provide. Read monstered him and currently leads forwards in MoTM voting.
 
Let's wait and see the haka.co.nz tackle stats before we say Pocock outplayed Cane too.

DMX

I think Pooper has been pretty effective against non-NZ teams but bar one game against ABs I think they lose in far more areas than they gain. Even if Pocock and Hooper get turnovers there are many occasions when they miss the turnovers and are left vulnerable outside. Add to this NZ Backrow are better lineout forwards, better in the collision and better over the gainline.

pakman

Just goes to show what no one has pointed out so far (as far as I can see), which is that Read is worth his weight in Gold to the ABs.

Crucial

I know I'm a broken record on this but Pocock is primarily a one-trick pony that is extremely good at his one trick to the detriment (at times) of his other duties. He is so busy hunting for those stat building turnovers that his positioning on defence is neglected.
As an example watch the BB try again. Watch Pocock's running line. He is sucked toward the Reado ruck set up leaving a hole the size of a Hamilton whore during Feildays week for BB to step through. He changes his mind way too late and looks like a poor club player trying to get to the tackle.
 
Turnovers from a long armed, short legged Popeye ain't everything.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DMX" data-cid="608172" data-time="1471889532">
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Even if Pocock and Hoopah get turnovers there are many occasions when they miss the turnovers and are left vulnerable outside. Add to this NZ Backrow are better lineout forwards, better in the collision and better over the gainline.
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This!
 
the obsession with turnovers hurts the rest of the game. It's like arguing with some people about wingers (not Winger, but wingers)...
 
- Look at the great tries he scores
- yep, but how about his high ball work, defensive alignment and tackling
- none of that matters! He's really fast!
 
To be fair, you can carry one bloke who's brilliant in one area but weaker in others, but when you start combining, you give a lot away. I don't think it is any surprise that the ABs made metres wide - the focus of the Wobbles to pile bodies into the breakdown means there is stretched defense everywhere elsewhere.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gary" data-cid="608139" data-time="1471864246">
Don't know where all this feel sorry for the Aussie rugby comes from you guys obviously can't remember the 1998 to 2003 and John O'Neil's ARU.</blockquote>
 
Agree 100% karma is a cruel bitch

taniwharugby

Dunno about feeling sorry, more that it isn't good for rugby.

The Silver Fern

Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)