Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="606260" data-time="1471479064">
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2007 World Cup - "the loss we had to have" "when NZ grew up and reappointed the losing coach"
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We had already "grown up" in 2003 because the coaching team were getting a bullet regardless of the result - plus the NZRU got cleared out after the sub hosting debacle. Smith's resignation in 2001 and willingness to take an assistant role in December 2003 were also watershed moments that got us away from the binary RWC win/loss, macho nonsense.
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="606257" data-time="1471478768">
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I think if Sir Ted wins in 2007 he probably quits early and takes Hansen and Smith with him.
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I honestly think individually they had no idea. They were clearly looking past France, but I doubt they even once looked onto 2008. Shag was back in NZ with his dying mother half the tournament too. Smith was always enigmatic with staying or going within the set up and we don't know how early and deep the blood feud between Deans and Hansen went. Most importantly we don't know what kind of a lure the 2011 RWC at home would have been - something they wouldn't have considered until the dust had settled.
 
After the 2005 season Lions tour and Grand Slam combo, then the near perfect 2006 season and the off field culture changes made after 2003 I think there was already a pride/sense they were building something pretty special and bigger than just a single RWC win. I think there would have been a real desire to not "do an England" and the band would have come back. I also don't think Ted would've retired that early if he got a sniff that it would have gifted it to Deans over Hansen - I think he wanted succession. But we are only guessing at this point.
 
Morbidly I would have enjoyed it if Ted retired and then Smith and Deans both applied, but not Hansen. Really would have given the black and red faithful a puzzle that couldn't be solved with the traditional method!
 
The only career that would be appreciably different if we won in 2007 assuming he wasn't injured in the QF is Dan Carter. For me he splits much earlier than he did, ditto if uninjured in 2011 - even as early as his first sabbatical for good. The rest of the stalwarts Woodcock, Mealamu & McCaw were lifers. Mauger and McAlister had already signed overseas before the cup - so Nonu and Smith happens regardless. Maybe Mils goes a year or two earlier?

KiwiMurph

Wallabies named
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">

Wallabies team to face New Zealand on Saturday August 20, 8:05pm AEST ANZ Stadium

1. Scott Sio (18 Tests)
2. Stephen Moore (105 Tests)
3. Sekope Kepu (66 Tests)
4.Kane Douglas (23 Tests)
5. Rob Simmons (62 Tests)
6. Ben McCalman (48 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (54 Tests)
8 David Pocock (56 Tests)
9. Will Genia (66 Tests)
10. Bernard Foley (30 Tests)
11. Dane Haylett-Petty (3 Tests)
12. Matt Giteau (102 Tests)
13. Tevita Kuridrani (34 Tests)
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper (114 Tests)
15 Israel Folau (41 Tests)

Reserves

16. Tatafu Polota-Nau (64 Tests)
17. James Slipper (77 Tests)
18. Allan Alaalatoa* (0 Tests)
19. Dean Mumm (46 Tests)
20. Scott Fardy (33 Tests)
21. Nick Phipps (42 Tests)
22. Matt Toomua (32 Tests)
23. Rob Horne (32 Tests)
 
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Chris B.

Agree that it's all speculation. I guess if Sir Ted wanted to carry on, the job would have been his. Not sure Hansen would have quite had the profile to see off Robbie in a one-on-one in 2007, though I think it's pretty clear that Robbie had a few guys in high places who weren't supporters.
 
I don't think there would have been too much puzzling in R&B circles in a contest between Smithy and Robbie. Smithy had had his turn in the top job.
 
Overall, things can't be improved on too much since 2007, so I think we should be pretty happy with how things have panned out. Doubtless quite a few rugby fans who died between 2007 and 2011 who wouldn't agree.

NTA

McCalman ahead of Fardy is interesting. 
No Mitchell also interesting.

mariner4life

um, that's a fucking good Wallaby team. McCalman in is a good move. Douglas in gives them starch. Kepu in gives them filth. Best back 3 they've had this year as well. 
 
At home, a month of prep, their best team of the year, us with a raft of outs. Wallabies by 6 in a new dawn.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606316" data-time="1471486525">
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um, that's a fucking good Wallaby team. McCalman in is a good move. Douglas in gives them starch. Kepu in gives them filth. Best back 3 they've had this year as well. 
 
At home, a month of prep, their best team of the year, us with a raft of outs. Wallabies by 6 in a new dawn. 
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Winger told me our B team would beat Australia so I'm not worried...

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606316" data-time="1471486525">
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um, that's a fucking good Wallaby team. McCalman in is a good move. Douglas in gives them starch. Kepu in gives them filth. Best back 3 they've had this year as well. 
 
At home, a month of prep, their best team of the year, us with a raft of outs. Wallabies by 6 in a new dawn. 
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It's sort of a "must win" for Chieka.
 
We've had our changing of the guard:
 
2015: ASmith, Carter, Savea, Nonu, CSmith, NMS, BSmith
 
This test: ASmith, Barrett, Naholo, Crotty, Fekitoa, BSmith, Dagg
 
Current everyone fit and at their best: ASmith, Barrett (maybe Cruden), Savea, Ngatai, SBW, NMS, BSmith
 
Point is - if we lose this one - in Sydney - we've got places to go to get better, including going home. If Chieka loses, I'm not sure where he can get better in the short term.
 
I can see Oz winning this - especially if our forwards don't smash them up front.

antipodean

Doesn't Ben McCalman play eight for the Force? Why move him to blindside and take Fardy (who plays blindside) to the bench to accommodate a number eight that is the antithesis of Zinny?

ACT Crusader

I think the additions of McCalman and Douglas will help in the skill department. Fardy has become penalty prone. McCalman has a decent running game an Douglas will help to shore up the lineout and grunt work.
 
I am a little surprised that Genia is starting as I thought he would provide a bit of spark off the bench. In saying that Phipps was below par in the England series

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="606246" data-time="1471477299">
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Cheeky
 
The question marks on the bench really do seem to revolve around the backs - can TJP take his recent form to the AB bench, can Cruden provide an impact, can Savea at least show some signs of heading in the right direction. 
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I have no problems with TJP or Cruden. TJP's there because he's in form and TKB didn't come back that well from his injury. Cruden's there as a backup plan and because he'll offer more impact than Sopoaga. But Savea makes no sense. You generally tend to want at least one back on the bench who can cover multiple positions but Savea only covers one and he's not even good at it anymore. McGod forbid Fekitoa has another shocker.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="606330" data-time="1471489798">
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I have no problems with TJP or Cruden. TJP's there because he's in form and TKB didn't come back that well from his injury. Cruden's there as a backup plan and because he'll offer more impact than Sopoaga. But Savea makes no sense. You generally tend to want at least one back on the bench who can cover multiple positions but Savea only covers one and he's not even good at it anymore. McGod forbid Fekitoa has another shocker.
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If Crotty or Fekitoa go down in the first 5 minutes, I reckon Bender goes to the midfield and Savea comes on. If they get injured say more than half way through we could see a repeat of Wales and Naholo move to the midfield.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="606242" data-time="1471476979">
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Based on your meltdown last year when Sopoaga was left out (you know, when you said that even if the ABs won the RWC with DC at 10, it'd just be luck), I'll take this post as a good sign.
 
A couple of little surprises in the 23 but most of it was predictable. Very happy for Hames and to see that Cane has recovered from the Stormers and Canes thuggery. Interested to see how Barrett goes at international level coming off a good season, hopefully he can keep up his form. Still not convinced Fekitoa is the right option at centre or that TJP won't shit the bed coming off the bench but I can always hope.
 
Only thing that confuses me is the three props and only two backs on the bench. Seems like overkill.
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I said his non selection was a big mistake. It was
 
It worked out fine as Carter luckily stayed injury free. But it was a unnecessary risk.

taniwharugby

History show's they were right all along and whatever perceived risk you saw was wrong.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="606164" data-time="1471466629">
So starting by super rugby team 
Crusaders 6 
H/Landers 4 
Cheifs 3 
Blues Canes 1 each 
You would think the Canes were the worst team based of these numbers. And the Crusaders easily the best 
(I wonder where the head coach hails from)</blockquote>
 
why don't you save your energy for the new climate change thread?

SammyC

Personally I agree with him. Crotty and dagg are lucky to be there. Dagg slipped into his form from the last 3 seasons post test match break.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="606359" data-time="1471501585">
All I see in the climate change thread is a couple of schoolgirls wishing for him to comment so you can poke fun at him. 
Why don't you save you energy for something else, maybe go watch some porn or something. 
Personally I agree with him. Crotty and dagg are lucky to be there. Dagg slipped into his form from the last 3 seasons post test match break.</blockquote>
 
That post was about his dig at Hanson selecting cantabs because he's from there , he can find s conspiracy in anything it seems . Agree re Dagg disagree re Crotty will take your advice re the porn though.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="606316" data-time="1471486525">
<div>
um, that's a fucking good Wallaby team. McCalman in is a good move. Douglas in gives them starch. Kepu in gives them filth. Best back 3 they've had this year as well. 
 
At home, a month of prep, their best team of the year, us with a raft of outs. Wallabies by 6 in a new dawn. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
We could put out a very good B team. That is a team that doesn't make the starting 15. there would be a lot of Canes players in this squad as they have just been completely overlooked by this panel
 
TJ and Sopoaga or Cruden
The Canes midfield weren't too bad
The best 7 in NZ (Savea)
 
The Tongan bear 9is he eligible), both locks either at lock or one for the back row, Shields and Vito at all options. even Jane was in good form. But we would need another selection panel otherwise it would be full of Canterbury players. :knuppel:

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="606378" data-time="1471506936">We could put out a very good B team. That is a team that doesn't make the starting 15. there would be a lot of Canes players in this squad as they have just been completely overlooked by this panel 
 
TJ and Sopoaga or Cruden 
The Canes midfield weren't too bad 
The best 7 in NZ (Savea) 
 
The Tongan bear 9is he eligible), both locks either at lock or one for the back row, Shields and Vito at all options. even Jane was in good form. But we would need another selection panel otherwise it would be full of Canterbury players. :knuppel:</blockquote>p 
That would be good thread, a b team from all players not in the 23 today... 
Can't think of props, but Parsons, Tuipulotu, Bird, Todd, Dixon, Luatua, Webber, Sopoaga, Lowe, ALB, Taumanivalu, Jane, D-Mac.

pakman

All said and done, not really much room for complaint. In forwards Pat T unlucky, but after Welsh cameo and rugged late game in Super semi's think selectors fancy Squire's impact against Oz and want to take another look. Was always on the cards once Dixon rested.
 
No one can begrudge BB start. For me Dagg has been very good at 15, and even if Bender offers more threat at 15 on attack, given wings situation, entirely logical to put him on wing to start.
 
Backs bench main talking point. I was a little surprised they actually went for TJP, but no question he's earned it. Straight choice between Bus and ALB -- Sydney cauldron no place to debut the tyro. Haven't seen the wise men's comments, but Cruden on bench suggest to me that they will look for BB to play 80. Possible change up to change at 60 to Naholo/BB/Bender back three, with Crudes steering from first five, rather than impact.
 
Hope Lima gets a starting run at some point...

pakman

Re Taniwha's B team, was looking good until I realised he'd tried to slip in a token 'Sader!

The Silver Fern

Bledisloe I (All Blacks team room bugged)