Crusaders vs Canes

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="597324" data-time="1468662334">It's looking highly likely. 
Get well soon Sam Whitelock, Jordan Taufua, Andy Ellis, Nemani Nadolo, Joe Moody and Johnny McNichol. 
I wouldn't mind another crack at the Canes.</blockquote>
You should jump ship to your 2nd favourite team after that performance, I mean, you're only a stones throw from Wellington

crusadersfan

Well that was worse than I feared, we are just shit and the only fact we are in the finals is because Australia and SA teams are more shit.
 
The main reason we have won fuck all in 8 years is piss poor recruiting, this lot couldn't recognise a decent back if it bit them on the arse. We have been lucky a few times (Dagg, Nadolo and Crotty) and now anyone with some talent isn't coming here to be fucked up and turned into a sideways running crab.
 
Yes I am bitter and twisted but it fucks me off how shit we have become even with one of the best forward packs around.
 
End of rant I am off to bed

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="crusadersfan" data-cid="597358" data-time="1468667509">
<div>
Well that was worse than I feared, we are just shit and the only fact we are in the finals is because Australia and SA teams are more shit.
 
The main reason we have won fuck all in 8 years is piss poor recruiting, this lot couldn't recognise a decent back if it bit them on the arse. We have been lucky a few times (Dagg, Nadolo and Crotty) and now anyone with some talent isn't coming here to be fucked up and turned into a sideways running crab.
 
Yes I am bitter and twisted but it fucks me off how shit we have become even with one of the best forward packs around.
 
End of rant I am off to bed
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</blockquote>
 
If I were Scott Robertson I'd be putting in a phone call to Mr. Robert Maxwell Deans and asking him what sort of consulting role he'd consider undertaking.

Tim

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="597119" data-time="1468656185">
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Well where to start? 
Perhaps the fact that I could see this a mile away and put $100 on canes 13+ @ $7.50 so silver linings and all that :) 
Mitchell Drummond can fuck right off, must be the thickest piece of shit playing super rugby in the country 
Also, fonotia and micniccol, thanks for nothing you piston wristed gibbons. 
Blackadder, what a fucking failure. 8 years of total mediocrity. Total scrum dominance and his first sub is Alaalatoa for franks???? You stupid fluffybunny 
Havilii crap, tupou get lost (Umaga can have him) 
We ain't ever gonna win a super title with moaga at 10. 
Scott Barrett is not an ab lock in waiting. Too small. Romano is fat and lazy. 
Well done canes, Barrett is ab 10 for sure now? 
I'm just happy mark Abbott didn't have a blinder, I'd leave the forum in shame if that happened 
Oh yeah??? Why the fuck is whitelock sitting on the bench if he had a virus???? Keep in in quarantine you fucking boneheads??? Typical of Blackadder and Riachs reign, no foresite whatsoever. 
I've been a season ticket holder for 15 years and this is the first time I've ever left with 10 to go. At least I won at the tab and can shout beers at the bar!!
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You're missing that Todd is the 6th best open-side flanker in NZ. Cane, Savea, Pryor, Pryor, and Gibson are all ahead of him.

KiwiMurph

Yeah not one of Todd's best games - he was obviously playing in a beaten pack but he didnt do himself any favours. That weak effort on Haloholo was not a good look at all. 
Agree that Mo'unga has gotten worse since the break - West is in a bit different situation though as he has Francis to take the pressure off while Richie has no such luck. 
Dagg is another one who hasn't quite been the same since the break - thought he was pretty average in Fiji and again tonight. 
Canes pack was very impressive and i've been a critic of Perenara but thought he had a great game. Ardie's engine is impressive, he got better as the game wore on. Julian was the same as he has been all season - below average.

Tim

Dagg's defence is very average. He didn't appear much when Wales scored tries.
 
His attacking play was outstanding against Wales, but he was under little pressure compared with NZ conference Super Rugby games. He hasn't been impressive in those.

reprobate

bit harsh on todd i think. the missed tackle was a total shocker, unacceptable - but then he also pulled off a pretty miraculous try-saving one that he had no right to earlier.

pukunui

Well, Canes top the NZ conference. Don't think anyone saw that coming after the first couple of rounds, or last week for that matter.
Crusaders never really looked in it in the second half. Don't think they will challenge for the title to be honest. They were in a bit of a transition phase this year with so many guys leaving after the RWC but arguably next year will be even bigger with Blackadder going and a few players following him. Not sad to see the likes of Blackadder, Fonotia, McNichol and Ellis moving on. And While Nadolo has been pretty good for them over the last few seasons they need to develop a game plan that isn't based soley around giving him the ball and hoping he doesn't trip over when a feather brushes his boot. Hopefully the new coach can bring in some decent replacements and build a winning team around the impressive forward pack. Not sure promoting an insider to the top job is actually going to achieve that though. 
IMO Mounga has been pretty good this season for someone so fresh. West has taken a few years to get to where he is and I wouldn't have him much ahead of Richie if at all. 
 
Back on the game, J Savea not great. It seems to be one step forward two steps back for him this year (and going back into last year) Did it all start with that dropped ball in the final last year? Has that wrecked his confidence and the RWC Qtr against france was the only time he has been able to turn the frustration into positive play? Maybe a rest until the EOYT would be best for him. Im sure Hansen will make the right call, they seem to be fairly on top of that sort of thing these days.

Wreck Diver

I hope the Jaguars win tonight I don't fancy the Crusaders 2 weeks in a row. Our teams are too close to each other and any side can win on any given day so would prefer the Sharks to travel to Wgtn.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="597371" data-time="1468671909">
You're missing that Todd is the 6th best open-side flanker in NZ. Cane, Savea, Pryor, Pryor, and Gibson are all ahead of him.</blockquote>
 
Probably add Christie who starts at 7 over Pryor when fit...so 7th now. 
Quality btw

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mattasaurus" data-cid="597069" data-time="1468652594">
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Great game from canes. Dominated up front. And quite possibly their best game of the year. 
9 10 was key difference for me. S whitelock massive loss for home team. 
Role on the next game
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</blockquote>
 
9,10,12 I think.
 
Drummond, Mo'unga, Havili would be a reasonable ITM Cup combo, but three rookies doesn't cut it at the business end of Super rugby. e.g. Chiefs second string i.e. Weber, Donald, ALB is significantly better.
 
Losing both Whitelock and Ellis were huge - probably the world's best lineout forward and the organizer of the backline. Agree with ACT that Drummond has a faster pass than Ellis, but is otherwise much worse (despite that he's doubtless faster around the park, as well). Perhaps Mo'unga's biggest problem was that he was getting no distance clearing the ball in the second half. We should have perhaps used Dagg more, but he had a shit game - the first Canes try came from him kicking the ball out on the full and the try he butchered was worse than Savea - so there's 14 points at your door Israel (and another 7 at Drummond's, and another 7 at Todd's).
 
Scrum went remarkably well. Lineout started fine until Taylor started overthrowing. Second half was basically just a disaster from start to finish.
 
Biggest problem is that we seem to have about 16 good players - when you need at least 23 - and only one of them is a midfield back and none of them is a first five (which is slightly harsh on Mo'unga and Havili).
 
Notes for Toddy:
 
Team: Moody, Taylor, Franks, Romano, Whitelock, Taufua, Todd, Read, Ellis, Mo'unga, Nadolo (seems to be too late to work on his fitness, but he's increasingly anonymous after 30 minutes), Crotty, Fucked if I know at centre - presumably Fonotia unless Freuan magically becomes available, McNicol - he's actually been remarkably good, Dagg.
 
Reserves: Crockett, Ged Robinson - Fuck the Funnel, Alafuckingalatoa since there is no alternative - Owen must play 80 minutes, Barrett, Tupou, Drummond for 10 minutes at the end, Hunt I suppose, though I'm tempted to say Volavola or even just risk having no first five reserve and stick Macilai in there, Havili.

reprobate

blackadder does so many things that i don't understand. unless franks was injured, pulling him off was ridiculous. this was an important game.
 
in line with my comments on fekitoa in the highlanders game, i don't understand why newer guys aren't give more limited roles as they learn the ropes. drummond can genuinely pass - arguably quicker and more accurate than our 2nd string ABs - but that's all he can do at this stage. just tell him to stick to that until he has mastered the other skills to an appropriate level to use them. sure it makes it a bit more difficult having rookies at both 10 and 12 outside him too, but then that is at toddy's door too.
 
and yeah chris, you're spot on with using dagg more. the ABs have been guilty in the past of under-utilising his punt too, when cruden was struggling for distance at times. dagg has a massive boot. you have phase play with secure ball near your line, you fucking use that rather than the guy who kicks it half as far, it isn't complicated and there's just no reason not to. brainless.

Immenso Rapido

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="597085" data-time="1468653564">
crusaders absolutely smashed. going on the last few weeks i think that west vs mounga debate is pretty easily answered. nadolo has looked off his normal standard the last couple weeks, maybe injured? actually thought drummond was okay apart from the inexcusable charge down; fukofuka on the other hand was panicky andconstantly passed high. blackadder pulled drummond and shouldn't have. likewise franks. seemed to be subs by the numbers. tactics were shit, suffered from a total lack of possession, then when they did get it, kept kicking it back to the canes, just stupid. 
canes were really good. barrett is still improving which is nice to see, controlled the game nicely. thought shields was more influential than vito or savea. mr T played a blinder. coles is good eh - a really good lineout thrower, that move for the gibbins break was sweet to watch. fifita is a cock. jules. wake up mate, for everyone's sake.</blockquote>
 
Surely it takes extra effort to start every sentence with a lower case? So, why inflict this on us? 
I just typed this with the thumb only on my wrong hand, and it is perfect. Almost.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="597422" data-time="1468706389">
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Surely it takes extra effort to start every sentence with a lower case? So, why inflict this on us? 
I just typed this with the thumb only on my wrong hand, and it is perfect. Almost.
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</blockquote>
nah it doesn't do it automatically for me - look for the positives though mate - sure that part of the orthography is shithouse, but my spelling is pretty much error free.

Immenso Rapido

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="597431" data-time="1468707634">
nah it doesn't do it automatically for me - look for the positives though mate - sure that part of the orthography is shithouse, but my spelling is pretty much error free.</blockquote>
That was 50% teasing, and 50% genuinely interested in what system doesn't automatically cap sentences. 
Been using phone only for so long now not sure how it works anymore outside of this.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="597418" data-time="1468706132">
<div>
blackadder does so many things that i don't understand. unless franks was injured, pulling him off was ridiculous. this was an important game.
 
and yeah chris, you're spot on with using dagg more. the ABs have been guilty in the past of under-utilising his punt too, when cruden was struggling for distance at times. dagg has a massive boot. you have phase play with secure ball near your line, you fucking use that rather than the guy who kicks it half as far, it isn't complicated and there's just no reason not to. brainless.
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</blockquote>
 
Toddy has been the architect of his own demise in Super rugby. I can't really think of anything innovative he's done in eight years at the helm - he really does seem to coach on autopilot a lot of the time.
 
He can, however, put together a good forward pack - though I suspect he's wasted most of his money on forwards, without really twigging that it's backs who win Super rugby these days. His backs' coaches seem to have been a bit woeful for the most part - in either recruitment or in getting the best out of players.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="597439" data-time="1468708821">
Toddy has been the architect of his own demise in Super rugby. I can't really think of anything innovative he's done in eight years at the helm - he really does seem to coach on autopilot a lot of the time. 
He can, however, put together a good forward pack - though I suspect he's wasted most of his money on forwards, without really twigging that it's backs who win Super rugby these days. His backs' coaches seem to have been a bit woeful for the most part - in either recruitment or in getting the best out of players.</blockquote>I think the main thing holding the Crusaders back on Friday wasn't so much missing certain players, but that they have a far inferior coach. Toddy has made baffling selections throughout his tenure, regularly makes poor substitutions that don't make sense (I cheered when Franks went off), and doesn't seem to have any identifyable game plan to limit opposition stengths and maximise theirs. Compare that to Boyd, Rennie and Joseph and it's light and day. The Canes, Chiefs and Landers all have very distinct styles of play and you can see the players buy into it even when the heat is on. The Saders, particularly the backs, often look like headless chooks when the heat is applied. 
I don't want to be too harsh on Toddy as overall the Saders have been a strong team under his reign, but there is some pretty obvious mistakes he repeatedly makes which has limited their chances of taking the title despite having the best pack in the business.

Cyclops

I feel bad saying this, but Toddy coaches like he plays - workmanlike, honest and loyal with a fair amount of leadership but lacking that extra 10-15% that just makes the difference.
 
Took a squad that was just about the best in the competition and got just about the best results - but couldn't convert those key moments (i.e. finals) that make the difference between good and great.

mimic

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="597422" data-time="1468706389">Surely it takes extra effort to start every sentence with a lower case? So, why inflict this on us? 
I just typed this with the thumb only on my wrong hand, and it is perfect. Almost.</blockquote>
What do u expect from a guy with a name that starts with a lower case?

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="597437" data-time="1468707976">
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That was 50% teasing, and 50% genuinely interested in what system doesn't automatically cap sentences. 
Been using phone only for so long now not sure how it works anymore outside of this.
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</blockquote>
i dictate my posts to my PA.

The Silver Fern

Crusaders vs Canes